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  1. #1
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Trump supporters are not welcome on our campus


  2. #2
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Unlike Princeton, UCF IS a public institution, so they better reign-in this dictator wanna-be before the Feds come a-knocking.
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  3. #3
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Unlike Princeton, UCF IS a public institution, so they better reign-in this dictator wanna-be before the Feds come a-knocking.

    Well, if you liked that then you'll love this: What can you learn from Beyonce? What can you learn from Beyonce? - CNN Video

    That three minute video begins with a chart of rising college costs.

    This same fella said he would run off the road people with Trump bumper stickers. And asked if it would be cool if he, a white guy, got a gun to randomly shoot white people.

    Your tax dollars at work.

  4. #4
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Unlike Princeton, UCF IS a public institution, so they better reign-in this dictator wanna-be before the Feds come a-knocking.
    Yeah, before you do that, please find out what power the "SGA Diversity Director" really has. My guess is not much.
    Much scarier is Trump's speech to law enforcement . Everyone focuses on encouraging police brutality piece; I'm much more concerned about the whole "150 thousand Latino unaccompanied minors animals slicing up beautiful babies" angle. It's scary because apparently a large minority of folks mindlessly eat this stuff up.
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  5. #5
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Yeah, before you do that, please find out what power the "SGA Diversity Director" really has. My guess is not much.
    It's called creating a hostile learning environment. As Billy Bulger once said, 90% of having power is making people think you have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Much scarier is Trump's speech to law enforcement. Everyone focuses on encouraging police brutality piece; I'm much more concerned about the whole "150 thousand Latino unaccompanied minors animals slicing up beautiful babies" angle. It's scary because apparently a large minority of folks mindlessly eat this stuff up.
    Right, I and every other police officer in the country are frothing at the mouth about something President Trump, who isn't even in our chain of command, said in a joking manner. A LOT worse stuff is said in police locker rooms, every day.

    I'll also trust the maturity and judgment of police officers over college students.
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  6. #6
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    It's called creating a hostile learning environment. As Billy Bulger once said, 90% of having power is making people think you have it.
    Granted, I wasn't an undergrad in American college. So tell me: how many students care about SGA and, in particular, it's "Diversity Director"? And why would they? Looks like a sandbox for politically bothered youth, of both wings, to me. Helps identify idiots, like a politically bothered person who'd post screenshot-ready pearls like "X are not welcome on campus" on social media. The guy sure helped his future hiring prospects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Right, I and every other police officer in the country are frothing at the mouth about something President Trump, who isn't even in our chain of command, said in a joking manner. A LOT worse stuff is said in police locker rooms, every day.
    "It's just a joke" dismissal, about a guy who controls DoJ, and is said to have a "bully pulpit"? Srsly? Besides, here I'm worried less about something he'll actually do (with any luck, not much; too busy tweeting) and more about what he does to the nation's psyche. Didn't even have to wait for election victory to start doing that. And you really scared me about locker rooms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I'll also trust the maturity and judgment of police officers over college students.
    Awfully low bar for guys who routinely carry deadly weapons and are trained to use these, dontcha think? I'd like to think RCMP agents are more mature than college students as well; didn't help Robert Dziekanski. Or Philando Castille for that matter.
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  7. #7
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    UCF SGA Diversity and Outreach Coordinator Resigns from Position | KnightNews.com

    Kids had sorted this out among themselves. Who would have thought that?

    Meanwhile, a man from "competent authorities" calling for "feds" involved is too Soviet Union for my taste. And I was born in Soviet Union.
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  9. #8
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Granted, I wasn't an undergrad in American college. So tell me: how many students care about SGA and, in particular, it's "Diversity Director"? And why would they? Looks like a sandbox for politically bothered youth, of both wings, to me. Helps identify idiots, like a politically bothered person who'd post screenshot-ready pearls like "X are not welcome on campus" on social media. The guy sure helped his future hiring prospects.
    As you noted in your most recent post, that problem has self-corrected. But to answer your question, many American college students are sheep; give a dominant personality a title (however meaningless) and a pulpit, and they wield a lot of perceived power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    "It's just a joke" dismissal, about a guy who controls DoJ, and is said to have a "bully pulpit"? Srsly? Besides, here I'm worried less about something he'll actually do (with any luck, not much; too busy tweeting) and more about what he does to the nation's psyche. Didn't even have to wait for election victory to start doing that. And you really scared me about locker rooms.
    The POTUS has exactly zero authority over local and state police departments. When Trump made that statement, he was practicing a long-lost (at least since November 2016), esoteric form of communication that's vanished from the mainstream media. It's called "humor".

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Awfully low bar for guys who routinely carry deadly weapons and are trained to use these, dontcha think? I'd like to think RCMP agents are more mature than college students as well; didn't help Robert Dziekanski. Or Philando Castille for that matter.
    It's a low bar to trust someone's judgment?

    BTW, if Philando Castile had an ounce of common sense, he'd be alive today. If you tell a police officer you have a gun, then make a sudden movement towards an area where most guns are carried, you really can't be too surprised when the officer perceives that as a threat.

    Stanislav, I would LOVE to put you through some shoot/don't shoot exercises, using Simunition (colored paint "bullets"). If you're like the great majority of citizens who do it, you'd be blasting everyone for everything, or end up covered in multi-colored paint because you didn't react aggressively enough.
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  10. #9
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    1. give a dominant personality a title (however meaningless) and a pulpit, and they wield a lot of perceived power.

    2. The POTUS has exactly zero authority over local and state police departments.
    Wha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    When Trump made that statement, he was practicing a long-lost (at least since November 2016), esoteric form of communication that's vanished from the mainstream media. It's called "humor".
    He was using "joking but seriously" construct. But you are missing what I was saying. The whole speech was about demonizing immigrants; Trump was deathly serious when he did that. Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    It's a low bar to trust someone's judgment?
    "Being more mature than undergrads" is the bar high enough to give people authority to use deadly force? I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    BTW, if Philando Castile had an ounce of common sense, he'd be alive today. If you tell a police officer you have a gun, then make a sudden movement towards an area where most guns are carried, you really can't be too surprised when the officer perceives that as a threat.
    And he deserved to die for that. Why didn't he use his extensive civilian academy training to know how to deal with a cop, who relies purely on instinct and is unpredictable?

    P. S. Philando Castile used more presence of mind and common sense than I would be able to muster in that situation. So did Diamond Reynolds (who never failed to address Yanez "sir" throughout the whole ordeal) and her four-year-old daughter ("mommy, I don't want you to get shooted"). Grading their performance as if they were in a tactical exercise is tone deaf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Stanislav, I would LOVE to put you through some shoot/don't shoot exercises, using Simunition (colored paint "bullets"). If you're like the great majority of citizens who do it, you'd be blasting everyone for everything, or end up covered in multi-colored paint because you didn't react aggressively enough.
    When/if that happens, I hope you would not immediately give me a badge and a gun with real bullets and put me in a patrol car. But this sounds fun; I might try to find out if local community colleges (eg., Humber, where I'm an online adjunct and where they have state-of-the-art police training labs) run something like that for general public.
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  11. #10
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    many American college students are sheep; give a dominant personality a title (however meaningless) and a pulpit, and they wield a lot of perceived power.
    First you said this...

    The POTUS has exactly zero authority over local and state police departments. When Trump made that statement, he was practicing a long-lost (at least since November 2016), esoteric form of communication that's vanished from the mainstream media. It's called "humor".
    ...but then you said this. Referent power either exists or it doesn't, but pick one.
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  12. #11
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    It's called creating a hostile learning environment. As Billy Bulger once said, 90% of having power is making people think you have it.
    As a point of information, in some cases these intersectionalist types really do have power over students:

    Female Student "Harassed, Threatened" By College After Insisting Her Boyfriend Did NOT Abuse Her
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  13. #12
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Wha?
    Local and state police are not subservient to the Federal government. While we would certainly show the POTUS the respect that the office deserves, he is not in our chain of command, and therefore has absolutely no authority over us. Likewise the FBI; an off-duty FBI Agent got drunk and waved his gun around in a local bar several years ago, he was arrested by local police and tried in state court.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    He was using "joking but seriously" construct. But you are missing what I was saying. The whole speech was about demonizing immigrants; Trump was deathly serious when he did that. Again.
    And you know this because.....??

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    "Being more mature than undergrads" is the bar high enough to give people authority to use deadly force? I disagree.
    Did I specify how much more mature? No, I didn't, but as a general rule, police officers are a LOT more mature than college undergrads. A LOT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    And he deserved to die for that. Why didn't he use his extensive civilian academy training to know how to deal with a cop, who relies purely on instinct and is unpredictable?
    Excellent question to which we'll never know the answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    P. S. Philando Castile used more presence of mind and common sense than I would be able to muster in that situation. So did Diamond Reynolds (who never failed to address Yanez "sir" throughout the whole ordeal) and her four-year-old daughter ("mommy, I don't want you to get shooted"). Grading their performance as if they were in a tactical exercise is tone deaf.
    Grading? I'm pointing out the fatal mistake he made. I've been stopped while off-duty before, I'm always armed, and I've managed to never get shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    When/if that happens, I hope you would not immediately give me a badge and a gun with real bullets and put me in a patrol car. But this sounds fun; I might try to find out if local community colleges (eg., Humber, where I'm an online adjunct and where they have state-of-the-art police training labs) run something like that for general public.
    So you admit that you don't have the training and judgment to make a life or death decision in the blink of an eye?

    Excellent, now we're getting somewhere. Remember that the next time you want to second-guess a police officer in a deadly force situation.
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  14. #13
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    First you said this...


    ...but then you said this. Referent power either exists or it doesn't, but pick one.
    Comparing college undergrads to seasoned police officers is like comparing apples to moonrocks. When some bully with a meaningless title tries to boss around the police, it always ends badly for them.
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  15. #14
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Local and state police are not subservient to the Federal government. While we would certainly show the POTUS the respect that the office deserves, he is not in our chain of command, and therefore has absolutely no authority over us.
    Police departments liaise with the Secret Service in POTUS protection and become well aware of such as JFK's (Jack The Zipper) philandering.

    Likewise the FBI; an off-duty FBI Agent got drunk and waved his gun around in a local bar several years ago, he was arrested by local police and tried in state court.
    Locally, it's been oft noted that the NYPD is not in awe of the FBI.

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  17. #15
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Local and state police are not subservient to the Federal government. While we would certainly show the POTUS the respect that the office deserves, he is not in our chain of command, and therefore has absolutely no authority over us. Likewise the FBI; an off-duty FBI Agent got drunk and waved his gun around in a local bar several years ago, he was arrested by local police and tried in state court.
    And that is one of many things I admire about America. Well done. Still doesn't support the conceit that POTUS speech is of no consequence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    And you know this because.....??
    Oh, so I am not to assume the biggest premise of his campaign and Presidency is not just one extended bad taste ethnic joke? You know, it does not cease to amaze me when Trump supporters offer these doozies as defence. "Oh, he's just not competent enough to know better" (or quoting Paul Ryan "he's new at this").
    He strokes fear of foreigners. Well, I'm a foreigner. Double foreigner, in fact. Are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Did I specify how much more mature? No, I didn't, but as a general rule, police officers are a LOT more mature than college undergrads. A LOT.
    Did I ask you how much more mature? It's a meaningless benchmark. How about "mature enough not top shoot innocent civilians to death"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Grading? I'm pointing out the fatal mistake he made. I've been stopped while off-duty before, I'm always armed, and I've managed to never get shot.
    Fatal mistake he made? This is precisely why some people distrust and fear the police, Bruce. And the sight of cops applauding Trump's irresponsible speech does not make things better.
    You obviously are waiting for this, so let me pull out the race card, Bruce. You failed to mention the other fatal mistake Philando Castile made, which is driving while black. Or in a police officer words, "resembling a robbery suspect based simply on a wide nose" (literally, "looking black"). Which of the "mistakes" got him killed? There are different opinions on this. But I would say that being stopped 50 times, he was up against the irresistible force of basic probability on this account.
    Since we're trading anecdotes: I met a young Russian guy, a student, at a party in Tampa Florida a couple of times. He drove a beat-up car with busted taillights for years. Being a young student from Russia, he was also prone to both speeding and DYI. He was never stopped once. You explain this one to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    So you admit that you don't have the training and judgment to make a life or death decision in the blink of an eye?

    Excellent, now we're getting somewhere. Remember that the next time you want to second-guess a police officer in a deadly force situation.
    Is it too much to ask that this training be sufficient to not shoot innocent civilians while they try to follow your vague orders? I bet you managed to not kill a guy in a situation like this, btw. Or, bringing up the Canadian icon the RCMP, not to torture a guy with a funny accent (Robert Dziekansky) to death? Or more importantly, not to pull all stops defending your own when they do any of this? I mean, if someone wants to see police as a right-wing paramilitary allergic to accountability, there is ample anecdotal support to feed this perception - and FOP's enthusiastic support for Trump, along with the visual of cops applauding his vile speech, are more than powerful anecdotes. It may be unfair, but you guys are not always helping correct this.
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  18. #16
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Comparing college undergrads to seasoned police officers is like comparing apples to moonrocks.
    Perhaps. But as with most groups, I wouldn't expect either to be immune to herd mentality. And it's pretty clear even to those of us on the outside that there is such a thing as police culture.
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