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  1. #1
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Lightbulb Gun permits increased 256% under Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by David French
    During Obama’s presidency, the number of concealed-carry permit holders increased 256 percent with a higher growth for:
    - women than men
    - blacks than whites

    In eleven states, 10 percent of the adults possess carry permits, while 14 states adopted constitutional carry, which means no permit is required to carry a gun.

    It’s interesting to see data merge with experience. Permit holders are more law-abiding than police officers. For example, data from Florida and Texas shows that permit holders are convicted of misdemeanors and felonies 1/6th less than for officers.

    As permits increase, violent crime decreases. States with higher carry rates (and the loosest carry restrictions) have lower violent-crime rates, than jurisdictions with the lowest carry percentages. The increase in permits correlates with decreases in murder rates. States with the sharpest increases in permits have the largest drops in murders.
    Full story:
    Concealed Carry Permits Increasing -- Good for America | National Review
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  2. #2
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Lightbulb In Chicago, women worried about violence join gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by Nova Safo
    Javondlynn Dunagan, a retiree who served as a parole officer for 25 years, rarely held a gun when dealing with convicts.

    Dunagan noticed something curious when she visited gun ranges around Chicago to practice.

    "I never saw two women at the range together or a group of ladies."

    Dunagan was particularly struck by the lack of African-American women, like herself, who were interested in learning how to use firearms.
    Full story:
    Flash - In Chicago, women worried about violence join gun club - France 24
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  3. #3
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Long ago, in the Naked City...

    A study was done to see who in NYC was most likely to carry a handgun. African-American women were found to be most likely.

    Don't know if that was accurate but it did make some sense.

  4. #4
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    This study is 20+ years old, but it's very telling and blows apart the "more guns means more crime" argument;

    "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense w" by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz
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  5. #5
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    You guys are 'WAY ahead of us Canadians. Your worst cities for murders (e.g. New Orleans LA, Baltimore MD) have around 45-50 murders each year per 100,000 population. Yet our worst in Canada (Ft. McMurray AB) has a measly 4.4 per 100K! We don't even rate! In fact, almost 30% of Canada's 100 largest cities failed to record even a single murder in 2015! What a dismal performance! Canada's most dangerous cities 2016: How safe is your city?

    Here, an ordinary citizen can't get a conceal-carry permit. If you're a civilian and have a handgun permit, you can take the weapon to the range - in your vehicle, in a locked box, by the most direct route - no stopping, not even for a pack of gum. At home, you can't even shoot a burglar here - unless he's presenting lethal force himself.

    With rare exceptions (e.g. high-level security), only cops, military, armored car staff and, of course, bad guys carry guns here. Yet our murder rates are only a tiny fraction of US rates, which folks in this forum maintain are lessened by increasing conceal-carry permits.

    Where did we go wrong in Canada? With our stringent no-carry rules, shouldn't our murder stats per 100,000 be through the roof?

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 07-24-2017 at 01:38 PM.

  6. #6
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    You guys are 'WAY ahead of us Canadians. Your worst cities for murders (e.g. New Orleans LA, Baltimore MD) have around 45-50 murders each year per 100,000 population. Yet our worst in Canada (Ft. McMurray AB) has a measly 4.4 per 100K! We don't even rate! In fact, almost 30% of Canada's 100 largest cities failed to record even a single murder in 2015! What a dismal performance! Canada's most dangerous cities 2016: How safe is your city?

    Here, an ordinary citizen can't get a conceal-carry permit. If you're a civilian and have a handgun permit, you can take the weapon to the range - in your vehicle, in a locked box, by the most direct route - no stopping, not even for a pack of gum. At home, you can't even shoot a burglar here - unless he's presenting lethal force himself.

    With rare exceptions (e.g. high-level security), only cops, military, armored car staff and, of course, bad guys carry guns here. Yet our murder rates are only a tiny fraction of US rates, which folks in this forum maintain are lessened by increasing conceal-carry permits.

    Where did we go wrong in Canada? With our stringent no-carry rules, shouldn't our murder stats per 100,000 be through the roof?

    J.
    The loyalists fled to Canada and chose to stay under the English crown. The rebels chose to completely sever ties with the crown to begin their own American government. The loyalists trusted the crown. The rebels did not.

    To prevent the newly formed American government from become tyrannical, the framers of the United States Constitution adopted the Second Amendment, which allows Americans to possess firearms. That's a huge responsibility that has since been completely taken away from Great Britain, where commoners are no longer allowed to possess pistols (except under very unusual circumstances).

    Anyway, to answer your original question, Canada went wrong when they decided to stay loyal to the crown.
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  7. #7
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again
    Anyway, to answer your original question, Canada went wrong when they decided to stay loyal to the crown.
    No, we didn't. Neither were the American Revolutionaries wrong. Both had their reasons.

    I meant (sarcastically) what had "gone wrong" to keep our murder rate per 100K so low, in the face of all our gun restrictions? But you knew that. So now, maybe you can tell us why it's so low and yours --well, you know...

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 07-24-2017 at 02:06 PM.

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  9. #8
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann
    No, we didn't.
    To be clear, I meant "No, we didn't go wrong." NOT "No, we didn't decide to stay loyal to the Crown."

    J.

  10. #9
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    I meant (sarcastically) what had "gone wrong" to keep our murder rate per 100K so low, in the face of all our gun restrictions? But you knew that. So now, maybe you can tell us why it's so low and yours --well, you know...

    J.
    The United States government is "of the people, by the people and for the people" (at least in theory). However, it came (and comes) at a great cost and with a tremendous amount of bloodshed, as is represented by the red stripes on the American flag e.g. the red stripes are symbolic of bloodshed.

    Gun ownership and self-governance is a huge responsibility. There are some socialistic elitists who believe that ordinary people are not responsible enough to govern themselves and/or to possess firearms. For example, governance and gun ownership is relegated to the privileged class in socialistic/communistic/dictatorial countries. However, that is the antitheses of true liberty . So again, to answer your question, the United States form of freedom came (and comes) at a great expense -- and Canada cannot afford it -- which is why it was formed by the loyalists. It is also why Canada continues its creep towards socialism.

    True liberty and Republicanism can only work on a moral people. The United States is God's experiment, but it will only work (and last) under a moral people. An American statesman once said, "Give me liberty or give me death." And another statement countered, "Once the [American] people figure out that they can vote themselves into prosperity [aka socialism], then the [American] Republic is doomed."
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
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  11. #10
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again
    Canada cannot afford it (freedom)
    Quote Originally Posted by me again
    The United States is God's experiment...
    How nice to have earned your ringing, resounding (not to say dripping) contempt. I'll be going, now. Maybe I'll start saving my spare Canuck change in a "freedom jar." Might amount to something, you never know.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 07-24-2017 at 03:38 PM.

  12. #11
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    How nice to have earned your contempt.

    J.
    It was not very hard, nor was it intentional. Also, the only self-inflicted insult that hurts is the one that is believed. Please don't be so hard on yourself. Food for thought.
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  13. #12
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    How nice to have earned your ringing, resounding (not to say dripping) contempt.
    Hey, don't dish it out if you can't take it. After all, you started it by bringing the Canadian "oh, where did we go wrong!" smugness.

    Anyway, given the remarkably similar living standards, it would seem that the Americans didn't make a mistake by revolting and the Canadians didn't make a mistake by standing pat. So there, to you both.
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  14. #13
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    My brother makes his living selling firearms, he works for a distributor that represents several major gunmakers.

    He's told me several times that President Obama was the greatest gun salesman in United States history .
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    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
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  15. #14
    jhp
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    Canada have twice as much rape victims than the US.
    Robbery victims 0.9% to 0.6%
    Same with assaults (737.5 to 786.7 or 2.3% vs 1.2%)
    Software piracy - 33% of installed software in Canada vs 20% in US.
    Fear of crime 84.64% vs 75.24% (feels safe walking alone)
    Suicide rate in Canada 19.2/100K vs 15.3/100K

    And, there is plenty more.

    Best one - Canada 92,590 to US 560.1 / 100K people of drug offenses.

    (Sources: UNODC, WHO, and other fun government and inter-government organizations)

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  17. #15
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    C'mon everyone! Let's hate on Canada!

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  18. #16
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    C'mon everyone! Let's hate on Canada!

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    Baldy, ya got the wrong damned goose!

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