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  1. #1
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    DARE is an epic failure

    so why does Jeff Sessions think it's great?

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ons-dare-crime
    American College of Sports Medicine

  2. #2
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    so why does Jeff Sessions think it's great?

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ons-dare-crime

    Because he's wrong about that. And this is why we shouldn't have 'czars.'

  3. #3
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    so why does Jeff Sessions think it's great?

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ons-dare-crime
    The most effective behavior-influencing education happens in the traditional nuclear home -- and not in government indoctrination programs. As the traditional nuclear family has dissolved since the 1960s, there is a commensurate rise is risky behaviors among teens and young adults i.e. drug use, suicide rates, etc. For example, about 87 percent of all teenage suicides occur in homes where the biological father has left (and abandoned his responsibilities). In theory, the concept of DARE is good, but it cannot replace the God-ordained functions of disintegrating nuclear families. The full devolution of family dissolution's is taking a over a century to unfold, which is beyond the lifespans of most of us here. We are in midstream of this devolution. As the traditional nuclear family goes, so goes the nation.

    Any monkey can point out these problems, but real genius is providing a solution. The Lord provided sequential solution by instructing us to be faithful to God first, spouse second, children third and so on. DARE cannot fix a societal abandonment of this sequential responsibility. The Constitution was designed to operate on a sequential moral society. As the family goes, so goes the nation.
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
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  4. #4
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Because he's wrong about that. And this is why we shouldn't have 'czars.'
    Hear hear.
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
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  5. #5
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    I've never been a big fan of DARE, I've arrested too many people wearing their t-shirts.

    However, I don't think you can quantify how much of a success or failure it is, when you consider that there's no way to measure how many kids decided to not take that first bad step because of the program. It's also very useful as a bridge between the youth community and the police, showing them that we are indeed human, which again isn't something that can be measured.

    Is it worth the cost? Who knows....certainly not me.
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    Bruce Tait
    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
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    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
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  6. #6
    Maniac Craniac is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I've never been a big fan of DARE, I've arrested too many people wearing their t-shirts.

    However, I don't think you can quantify how much of a success or failure it is, when you consider that there's no way to measure how many kids decided to not take that first bad step because of the program. It's also very useful as a bridge between the youth community and the police, showing them that we are indeed human, which again isn't something that can be measured.

    Is it worth the cost? Who knows....certainly not me.
    As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

    I learned a lot from DARE and found it to be a welcome break from the monotony of the daily elementary school schedule. I don't know how well the program is implemented anywhere else, but I feel like I benefited from what I learned. What it came down to was the obvious: that no matter what I was taught, I was the one who had to make the decisions in my own life.

    Is DARE a failure because kids do drugs anyway? Is health education a failure because kids drink Monster and eat Takis anyway? Is English class a failure because kids dunno nuffin bout werds n rite txts liek dis?

    ...but you can't make it drink.

    While the article criticizes Jeff Sessions for being supposedly blind to evidence and research, the writer then asks this question

    So why did DARE fail?
    and proceeds to profess an answer without a shred of evidence or research to back it up. Pulls an answer straight out of his know-it-all playbook and in the process of doing so can't seem to reconcile whether he thinks kids really shouldn't do drugs or if it's not that big of a deal and let's just all calm down about the whole thing.

    Typically, my classmates and neighbors were completely aware of the negative consequences of what they were doing, and quite simply didn't care. They didn't do drugs because they thought they'd be fine and mistrusted PSAs. They did drugs because they wanted the instant gratification and didn't care what happens after the high wears off. Of course, this is just anecdotal hearsay evidence, but it's at least more than the writer of the article provided and I'm not even getting paid for this.
    BA, Social Sciences ---- The University Formerly Known As Thomas Edison State College

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  7. #7
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I've never been a big fan of DARE, I've arrested too many people wearing their t-shirts.

    However, I don't think you can quantify how much of a success or failure it is, when you consider that there's no way to measure how many kids decided to not take that first bad step because of the program. It's also very useful as a bridge between the youth community and the police, showing them that we are indeed human, which again isn't something that can be measured.

    Is it worth the cost? Who knows....certainly not me.
    That's an excellent observation. Regarding the accuracy of the research methodology used to evaluate DARE:
    - Was there a control group???
    - Was there a variable???
    - Was there an independent variable???

    Without answers to the above, this forum cannot make an accurate assessment of the success or failure of DARE.
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
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  9. #8
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    there's no way to measure how many kids decided to not take that first bad step because of the program.
    I think that what they do is look at the incidence rate in towns that have the program vs. towns that do not. Over so many towns and over so much time I guess there's a lot of aggregated data. I suppose the methodology could be better, I don't know. As with lots of other things, it's probably not a question of "does it do any good?" but more a question of "Is it worth the money it costs?"
    American College of Sports Medicine

  10. #9
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    I think that what they do is look at the incidence rate in towns that have the program vs. towns that do not. Over so many towns and over so much time I guess there's a lot of aggregated data. I suppose the methodology could be better, I don't know. As with lots of other things, it's probably not a question of "does it do any good?" but more a question of "Is it worth the money it costs?"
    Well, you can't prove a negative; that is, how many kids decided to not go down the bad path, because of DARE?

    I'm not saying that DARE is cost-effective or even works that well, I'm just saying that all these reports saying that it's essentially worthless are using fatally flawed logic.
    --
    Bruce Tait
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    B.A. (Criminal Justice) Curry College
    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
    M.A. (Forensic & Counseling Psychology) Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology
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  11. #10
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Well, you can't prove a negative; that is, how many kids decided to not go down the bad path, because of DARE?

    You also can't remotely assess the presenters. I can't tell if you'd have a talent for connecting with the young'uns or if you'd be like stink on toast.

  12. #11
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I'm not saying that DARE is cost-effective or even works that well, I'm just saying that all these reports saying that it's essentially worthless are using fatally flawed logic.
    That appears to be the case because no quantitative data is presented with variables, independent variables and control groups.

    COMPARE THE FOLLOWING TWO GROUPS:

    GROUP 1:
    One group receives the DARE curriculum (4th to 8th grades). Then survey the group in 12th grade to ascertain if they used drugs i.e. students who move or drop-out before 12th grade, etc.

    GROUP 2:
    Another group does not receive the DARE curriculum (4th to 8th grades). Then survey the group in 12th grade to ascertain if they used drugs.

    It appears (?) that the researchers didn't use any such methodology. There are also a lot of confounding variables that are involved.
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  13. #12
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    It appears (?) that the researchers didn't use any such methodology. There are also a lot of confounding variables that are involved.
    I'm uncertain what methodology they use. I was just guessing. Do you know something of the actual methodology used or are you just guessing too?
    American College of Sports Medicine

  14. #13
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    I'm uncertain what methodology they use. I was just guessing. Do you know something of the actual methodology used or are you just guessing too?
    This writer was just guessing. Subsequently, this writer went and looked for one of the articles -- and it appears to be quantitative and comprehensive. You can read the article at this link (scroll down to page 13):

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile...ication_detail
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
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  15. #14
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    This writer was just guessing. Subsequently, this writer went and looked for one of the articles -- and it appears to be quantitative and comprehensive. You can read the article at this link (scroll down to page 13):

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile...ication_detail


    Well, that study is over 20 years old and even then it shows that DARE doesn't work.

    "First, the study provides relatively little empirical support for the comprehensive model of school-based drug education , of which DARE is a prime exemplar."
    American College of Sports Medicine

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