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  1. #1
    me again is online now Registered User
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    Thumbs down Soros-Funded Protesters Demand Prosecution of Donald Trump JUNIOR

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Kew
    Soros-Funded Protesters Demand Prosecution of Donald Trump Jr.

    A protest outside the White House was organized by the George Soros-funded political action committee (PAC) MoveOn.org and called for the prosecution of President Donald Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr., amid evidence that a Russian lawyer (Natalia Veselnitskaya) offered to provide him with damaging information on Hillary Clinton during last year’s presidential election.
    Full story:
    Soros-Funded Protest at White House Demands Prosecution for Donald Trump Jr. - Breitbart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hoft
    Pics of Natalia Veselnitskaya with Obama Officials

    At the heart of the media Russian narrative du jour is a story about Donald Trump Jr. meeting with a Russian attorney named Natalia Veselnitskaya. That meeting took place on June 9th 2016 in Trump Tower.

    Now it is discovered via video and images, that only 5 days later, Ms. Natalia Veselnitskaya was a guest of Obama administration Russian Ambassador Michael McFaul at a House of Representatives hearing on U.S. Policy Toward Russia.
    Full story with photos:
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...une-14th-2016/

    Emails disclosed by Trump Jr:
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...mail-text.html
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  2. #2
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    It's always fun to see so called "conservatives" just plain out taking a stand against other people's First Amendment rights. Also, your failure to grasp that Junior is criticized NOT for merely meeting with the advocate for the rights of crooks and murderers is FINE example of Orwellian "crimestop" technique:

    The first and simplest stage in the discipline, which can be taught even to young children, is called, in Newspeak, CRIMESTOP. CRIMESTOP means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. CRIMESTOP, in short, means protective stupidity... orthodoxy in the full sense demands a control over one's own mental processes as complete as that of a contortionist over his body.
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  3. #3
    heirophant is offline Registered User
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    Want him prosecuted for what exactly?

    Why was talking to a Russian so reprehensible? Has talking to Russians suddenly been made a crime? By whom? When?

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/c7hDr8ppaXc/maxresdefault.jpg

    It's kind of appalling how people call for criminal prosecutions for imaginary crimes that don't even exist, yet insist that laws that are clearly on the books not be prosecuted. For example, this one:

    [USC03] 8 USC 1324: Bringing in and harboring certain aliens)

    It would seem that laws already on the books make harboring and protecting illegal aliens who are subsequently responsible for the death of anyone a capital felony itself, punishable by life in prison or death. I can think of a number of 'sanctuary cities' where that might be applicable. (Are you listening San Francisco?)
    Last edited by heirophant; 07-12-2017 at 09:51 AM.

  4. #4
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    Want him prosecuted for what exactly?
    Thanks for another example of CRIMESTOP, h. Great, great illustration.

    Of course, while what Junior did appears to be illegal, it is not at all clear he will be indicted if this is the only episode that comes to light. The way it goes, though, it's more likely than not that these revelations will continue.
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  5. #5
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    Want him prosecuted for what exactly?
    This is a good question. There's this:

    "The central legal peril for Trump Jr. seems to revolve around campaign finance law. It’s a crime not only to accept but to solicit anything of value from a foreign national for a campaign. That obviously includes things like cash donations. But can the info about Clinton that the publicist promised be considered a donation that could meet the statute’s definition of a “thing of value”?"

    Donald Trump Jr.: Will He Go to Jail?

    But as I understand it, it's actually Jared Kushner who is potentially in the biggest trouble. This is based on the fact that, as a member of the White House staff, he had to disclose all contacts with foreign government, etc. under penalty of perjury. This is now the second time he has been caught failing to disclose contacts with Russian "foreign nationals."

    http://forward.com/news/national/376...jared-kushner/

    So in this case the crime is not necessarily the act of "talking to a Russian." The crime is failing to disclose the conversation. Considering how much attention is being paid to Trump/White House/Russian connections, it's hard to imagine that the old "I forgot" defense would work here. Of course the topic of the meeting - obtaining (probably illegally obtained) Clinton emails from the Russian government (how else would they get them?) would likely lead to additional charges.
    Last edited by Kizmet; 07-12-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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  6. #6
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post

    Why was talking to a Russian so reprehensible? Has talking to Russians suddenly been made a crime? By whom? When?
    Nope. Trying to get useful kompromat from Russian government (intelligence) sources to help a political campaign, otoh, is a crime. It is clear from emails that Jr. thought the woman might have just such materials, and tried to solicit these from her. And, please, don't insult anyone's intelligence trying to suggest that an advocate for the Magnitsky Act-affected criminals is not connected to Russian government. Of course she is. Even the family friend Aram, the singer is likely one handshake from closest Putin cronies, seeing as his father is Moscow retail magnate.
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  7. #7
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Thanks for another example of CRIMESTOP, h. Great, great illustration.

    Of course, while what Junior did appears to be illegal, it is not at all clear he will be indicted if this is the only episode that comes to light. The way it goes, though, it's more likely than not that these revelations will continue.
    While you know I don't like Trump, Heirophant asked a fair question that called for a real answer, not ad hominem.
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  9. #8
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    While you know I don't like Trump, Heirophant asked a fair question that called for a real answer, not ad hominem.
    Which is what I did in the very next post. Note, however, that potential legal issues with JUNIOR's actions are widely reported. Pretending they aren't is either dishonest polemic or a case of CRIMESTOP. So it's not an ad hominem, but rather charitable interpretation of what hierophant is doing in his post.
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  10. #9
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    The NY Post, a long time supported of Trump, turns against Donny Jr.

    Donald Trump Jr. is an idiot | New York Post
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  11. #10
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    The NY Post, a long time supported of Trump, turns against Donny Jr.

    Donald Trump Jr. is an idiot | New York Post
    He is a bit of a pendejo (stupid). Who knows what other forgotten meetings may come up, etc.

  12. #11
    me again is online now Registered User
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    Thumbs down Anonymous MSM click-bait insults

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Link to anonymous New York Post insult:
    It's interesting how the New York Post is now posting anonymous "headline insults." MSM journalistic integrity is MIA. MSM professionalism is completely gone because it's easier to print anonymous bombastic insults as click bait.
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  13. #12
    me again is online now Registered User
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    Thumbs down Russia Russia Russiagate!!!

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  14. #13
    heirophant is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    It's always fun to see so called "conservatives" just plain out taking a stand against other people's First Amendment rights.
    Nobody has suggested that the protesters be silenced. You're just kind of tossing that gratuitous premise in there.

    In fact it's even worse. I still remember criticizing rioters beating up individuals leaving a Trump rally in San Jose, and YOU defending the rioters and the violence in that instance. That was an attempt to silence political opponents and you applauded it.

    That may be how things were done in the old Soviet Union and in today's Ukraine (where governments are still overthrown by street violence), but not here in the United States. (I don't think that it's even acceptable in Canada.)

    Also, your failure to grasp that Junior is criticized NOT for merely meeting with the advocate for the rights of crooks and murderers is FINE example of Orwellian "crimestop" technique:
    Ooh, a literary reference! Here's another one - to Kafka's The Trial, where Josef K. is prosecuted by the authorities for some crime that's never revealed to him, employing surrealistic procedure that makes no sense. Not unlike opening a grand investigation (investigating God knows what) that is then tried on CNN and on the front pages of the New York Times and the Washington Post.

    If somebody is to be prosecuted, then the first step to avoid a totally Kafkaesque situation must be to specify what the charges are, who is being charged and precisely what law was supposedly broken.

    If Stanislav wants to cite the US Constitution, then he probably needs to take a look at its Sixth Amendment.

    Sixth Amendment - U.S. Constitution - FindLaw

    Annotation 7 - Sixth Amendment - FindLaw

  15. #14
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    In fact it's even worse. I still remember criticizing rioters beating up individuals leaving a Trump rally in San Jose, and YOU defending the rioters and the violence in that instance. That was an attempt to silence political opponents and you applauded it.
    No I didn't. I said these bozos do not represent "the Left" any more than the white supremacist terrorists represent "the Right".

    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    That may be how things were done in the old Soviet Union and in today's Ukraine (where governments are still overthrown by street violence), but not here in the United States. (I don't think that it's even acceptable in Canada.)
    I guess I shouldn't be surprised by you parroting Russian propaganda line used to justify a hybrid invasion in Ukraine right now (routine reporting stated that 27 Ukrainian service members were killed during the month of June, long into the so called "ceasefire"), seeing as your God-Emperor is not above doing the same. Still: I hope you get exactly what you deserve in life. Enjoy.


    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    Ooh, a literary reference! Here's another one - to Kafka's The Trial, where Josef K. is prosecuted by the authorities for some crime that's never revealed to him, employing surrealistic procedure that makes no sense. Not unlike opening a grand investigation (investigating God knows what) that is then tried on CNN and on the front pages of the New York Times and the Washington Post.

    If somebody is to be prosecuted, then the first step to avoid a totally Kafkaesque situation must be to specify what the charges are, who is being charged and precisely what law was supposedly broken.

    If Stanislav wants to cite the US Constitution, then he probably needs to take a look at its Sixth Amendment.

    Sixth Amendment - U.S. Constitution - FindLaw

    Annotation 7 - Sixth Amendment - FindLaw
    Here, Patrick Hamilton's "Gas Light" is an appropriate reference. Dude, no one is being prosecuted; CNN, NYT and Washington Post are neither prosecutorial nor judicial bodies. Saying that Fredo tried to collude with the Russians is not "prosecution", it's called "reporting".
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  17. #15
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Speaking to a Russian is apparently verboten by the MSM, unless it's Hillary Clinton while she's selling them 20% of our uranium reserves.
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  18. #16
    jhp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Speaking to a Russian is apparently verboten by the MSM, unless it's Hillary Clinton while she's selling them 20% of our uranium reserves.
    ... or Ukrainian like Alexandra Chalupa.

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