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  1. #1
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Where the Right Went Wrong

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/o...ent-wrong.html

    An interesting account from someone who would know.
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  2. #2
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
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    Can't find the article. something's wrong with the link.

  3. #3
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Lightbulb Charles J. Sykes goes off air: Loses too many listeners

    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    Can't find the article. something's wrong with the link.
    Here's an interesting quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles J. Sykes
    After nearly 25 years, I’m stepping down from my talk radio show. The Donald J. Trump campaign has made my decision easier.

    After Mr. Trump lost the Wisconsin Republican primary, I hoped that we here in the Midwest would turn out to be a firewall of rationality. Our political culture was inhospitable to Mr. Trump’s pugilism. But Wisconsin gave the presidency to Mr. Trump.

    I [erroneously] thought I had a solid grasp on what conservatism stood for and where it was going.

    I was under the impression that conservatives believed in free trade, balanced budgets and respect for constitutional rights. Then along came this campaign.

    Mr. Trump won big margins in rural blue-collar counties. Democrats stayed home. That is what I saw.

    I wrote in 2015 that Mr. Trump was a cartoon version of every media stereotype of the reactionary misogynist right. Mr. Trump sold crude nativism at his rallies.

    The state of our politics explains why none of the revelations, outrages or gaffes seem to dent Mr. Trump’s popularity.

    Voters must tolerate bizarre behavior, dishonesty, crudity and cruelty.

    People refuse to accept evidence that comes from outside their bubble.

    And this is where it became painful. Republican leaders had no illusions about Mr. Trump’s character or judgment, but the people's demands took precedence. To resist was an act of betrayal of the people.

    I remained #NeverTrump, but conservatives I had known and worked with for more than two decades organized boycotts of my show. I was losing listeners.

    And then, there was social media. The Twitter storms. One conservative commentator and Republican political leader after another fell in line.

    We [conservatives] empowered the worst and most reckless voices on the right. This is a moral failure at the heart of the conservative movement.

    I’m not a part of it anymore.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/o...ent-wrong.html
    "Charles J. Sykes is a left wing nutjob who erroneously thought he was on the right."
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  4. #4
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    You have to click on the right when you're on that weird page and then you get to the article. Apparently it's a new annoying "feature" the New York Times has in between its readers and its content. Sorry guys.
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  5. #5
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    Here's an interesting quote:



    "Charles J. Sykes is a left wing nutjob who erroneously thought he was on the right."
    Charles Sykes a left wing nut job! What the heck? You can call him many things but not a left wing nutjob. He is just a vocal Rep who sees problems with current party in power. I think Sykes is pretty cool actually. He calls things as he sees them in his own party. This does not make him a "left wing nutjob" as you say.

  6. #6
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Lightbulb Charles Sykes show went under due to lack of conservative listeners

    Quote Originally Posted by Abner View Post
    Charles Sykes a left wing nut job!

    Here are a few gem comments from Charles Sykes (courtesy of the New York Trash [NYT]) :

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles J. Sykes
    I [erroneously] thought I had a solid grasp on what conservatism stood for.

    I was under the impression that conservatives believed in respect for constitutional rights.

    I wrote that Mr. Trump was a cartoon version of every media stereotype of reactionary misogynists.

    Voters must tolerate bizarre behavior, dishonesty, crudity and cruelty because people refuse to accept evidence that comes from outside their bubble.

    I remained #NeverTrump, but I was losing listeners.
    Based on what Charles Sykes wrote, he lost conservative radio-listeners because:
    - he is detached from conservatives
    - he is in left field
    - people disagree with him

    It's a free country! Thank goodness!
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  7. #7
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    Here are a few gem comments from Charles Sykes (courtesy of the New York Trash [NYT]) :



    Based on what Charles Sykes wrote, he lost conservative radio-listeners because:
    - he is detached from conservatives
    - he is in left field
    - people disagree with him

    It's a free country! Thank goodness!
    Yes, it is a free county. God bless the USA. He has dissenting opinion about certain things, and he is entitled to speak out against a President even if it is his own party. I personally think he is great, and he should keep doing what he is doing. We might as well call Lindsay Graham and John Mccain left wing nutjobs since they speak out against there own party/President as well.

    I say, God bless them. People like that keep a certain needed balance rather than just towing the party line.

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  9. #8
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    Can't find the article. something's wrong with the link.
    ditto here.
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  10. #9
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    ditto here.
    Here are the comments you posted:

    After nearly 25 years, I’m stepping down from my talk radio show. The Donald J. Trump campaign has made my decision easier.

    After Mr. Trump lost the Wisconsin Republican primary, I hoped that we here in the Midwest would turn out to be a firewall of rationality. Our political culture was inhospitable to Mr. Trump’s pugilism. But Wisconsin gave the presidency to Mr. Trump.

    I [erroneously] thought I had a solid grasp on what conservatism stood for and where it was going.

    I was under the impression that conservatives believed in free trade, balanced budgets and respect for constitutional rights. Then along came this campaign.

    Mr. Trump won big margins in rural blue-collar counties. Democrats stayed home. That is what I saw.

    I wrote in 2015 that Mr. Trump was a cartoon version of every media stereotype of the reactionary misogynist right. Mr. Trump sold crude nativism at his rallies.

    The state of our politics explains why none of the revelations, outrages or gaffes seem to dent Mr. Trump’s popularity.

    Voters must tolerate bizarre behavior, dishonesty, crudity and cruelty.

    People refuse to accept evidence that comes from outside their bubble.

    And this is where it became painful. Republican leaders had no illusions about Mr. Trump’s character or judgment, but the people's demands took precedence. To resist was an act of betrayal of the people.

    I remained #NeverTrump, but conservatives I had known and worked with for more than two decades organized boycotts of my show. I was losing listeners.

    And then, there was social media. The Twitter storms. One conservative commentator and Republican political leader after another fell in line.

    We [conservatives] empowered the worst and most reckless voices on the right. This is a moral failure at the heart of the conservative movement.

    I’m not a part of it anymore.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________________________

    As an oppssing figure, what is wrong with what he wrote? He is merely pointing out things that disturb him. I just don't get the point you are trying to makes. Like I said, Graham and McCain must be left wing nut jobs since they disagree with POTUS and his policies so much.

    You rock Davis Sykes. Abner

  11. #10
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    "Charles J. Sykes is a left wing nutjob who erroneously thought he was on the right."
    You respond to an article an offer only an ad hominem attack on the author. Sykes offered an analysis, a point of view. Obviously it's ok to disagree with the opinions expressed by Sykes but you might want to actually do that rather than simply call names.
    Last edited by Kizmet; 07-09-2017 at 06:53 PM.
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  12. #11
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    You respond to an article an offer only an ad hominem attack on the author. Sykes offered an analysis, a point of view. Obviously it's ok to disagree with the opinions expressed by Sykes but you might want to actually do that rather than simply call names.
    That, and all he did was prove Sykes's point.
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  13. #12
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    You respond to an article an offer only an ad hominem attack on the author.
    Sykes distanced himself from conservatives with ad hominem attacks by:
    - calling Trump a pugilist and a cartoon stereotype [sic]
    - and by labeling anyone who agrees with Trump as a misogynist.

    Sykes publicly says that anyone who disagrees with his political worldview "refuses to accept evidence that comes from outside their bubble." However, Sykes own insular bubble was publicly popped when conservatives quit listening to his radio show.

    There's plenty of name calling to go around and Sykes started it, which is one reason why listeners quit tuning in to his show. The ratings speak for themselves. Good bye to Sykes' radio show and good riddance. If you agree with his opinion so much, then you should send him a financial donation. He needs it.
    Last edited by me again; 07-09-2017 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Keep America Great!
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  14. #13
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    So Sykes alienated his listeners, and is then surprised why those same listeners tuned him out?
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  15. #14
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    If you agree with his opinion so much, then you should send him a financial donation. He needs it.
    It's a bit of a silly thing to say. There are people all over the world that I agree with and they need money for various reasons yet I don't send any to them. That's true for you as well.
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  17. #15
    03310151 is offline Registered User
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    Where the Right Went Wrong....in winning the Presidency, House and Senate along with taking more gubernatorial spots? And now being 5-0 in post 2016 congressional seats?


    Sounds wrong...all right.


    Never heard of this guy.
    “Suffering you need; literature is baloney.”

  18. #16
    heirophant is offline Registered User
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    After nearly 25 years, I'm stepping down from my talk radio show. The Donald J. Trump campaign has made my decision easier.

    Apparently this guy is a talk radio host. (I've never heard of him, but I don't follow talk radio.) I'm not sure that being a talk-radio host gives him any special qualifications to speak authoritatively about "where the right went wrong" (the subject line of this thread).

    And he had other reasons for quitting. Trump's election just made the decision easier. Unfortunately, this little opinion piece (published by the New York Times for heaven's sake!) makes it sound like this guy isn't just quitting his talk-radio job, but is breaking from the right entirely. That's probably why the NYT chose to publish it.

    After Mr. Trump lost the Wisconsin Republican primary, I hoped that we here in the Midwest would turn out to be a firewall of rationality. Our political culture was inhospitable to Mr. Trump's pugilism. But Wisconsin gave the presidency to Mr. Trump.

    There's a whole bunch of hidden premises tucked in there, most obviously that those who oppose Mr. Trump are rational and those who support him aren't.

    I [erroneously] thought I had a solid grasp on what conservatism stood for and where it was going.

    I voted for Trump and I'm not even sure what "conservative" means. I'm not sure what "liberal" means either. I didn't vote for Trump because he supposedly embodies a political philosophy (however ill-defined). I'm not even convinced that Trump is a 'conservative' in any philosophical or 'movement' sense, nor do I care very much whether he is.

    I was under the impression that conservatives believed in free trade, balanced budgets and respect for constitutional rights.

    I think that 'free-trade' is more a fascination of the Wall Street Journal class of Republicans, the big-business class. It doesn't look nearly as good to rust-belt voters who watch their factories close and their jobs (and the industrial capacity these factories represent) get shipped off to Asia.

    The reason why the US won World War II wasn't the superiority of our soldiers. Germany and Japan had excellent soldiers. We won because we flooded the world with thousands of ships, tanks and planes in just 3 1/2 years. So what happens when we get into a war with China and they have all the manufacturing capacity?

    And I can't think of a single instance where Mr. Trump has threatened anyone's Constitutional rights. Precisely the contrary.

    I'm a gun-owner and Trump supports second amendment rights. Trump supports religious liberty . Trump opposes university speech codes, kangaroo courts and all the fast multiplying quasi-judicial enforcement of "politically correct" restrictions on what people can say and do promoted so hard by the left.

    I do have doubts about how Trump's promises fit within balanced budgets, but you can't have everything. It's not like the Democrats were promising balanced budgets. Voters like me have to take the best of what we are offered. Besides, I don't exactly oppose raising taxes on the super-rich.

    Then along came this campaign.

    Exactly.

    Mr. Trump won big margins in rural blue-collar counties.

    He represented the interests and concerns of the rank-and-file Republican voters (and traditional blue-collar Democrats along with them), not just the New York Wall-Street elite donor-class and the Washington DC lobbyist class. No other candidate, Republican or Democrat, could even imagine doing that.

    I wrote in 2015 that Mr. Trump was a cartoon version of every media stereotype of the reactionary misogynist right. Mr. Trump sold crude nativism at his rallies.

    There's lots of hysteria being shotgunned in that little space: 'Reactionary' (that's a leftist term derived from Marxism, isn't it?). 'misogynist'. 'crude', 'nativism'. Mr. Sykes, the supposed "conservative", sounds like an apparatchik of the Democratic "resistance" when he talks that way.

    The state of our politics explains why none of the revelations, outrages or gaffes seem to dent Mr. Trump's popularity.

    Voters must tolerate bizarre behavior, dishonesty, crudity and cruelty.


    More crude and bizarre hyperbole. The principle Sykes seems to miss is that we weren't voting for Mr. Trump's personality. We were voting for a candidate who finally, after so many years, seemed to be listening to us and was speaking to our concerns (not Wall Street's concerns, not Hollywood's concerns, not CNN's concerns, not the concerns voiced in the faculty clubs). That made Trump different from everyone else in the Republican and Democratic parties (the latter party's message to the white middle class seems to only be 'hurry up and die').

    People refuse to accept evidence that comes from outside their bubble.

    Mr. Sykes seems to be the foremost example of that.

    And this is where it became painful. Republican leaders had no illusions about Mr. Trump's character or judgment, but the people's demands took precedence. To resist was an act of betrayal of the people.

    That's called Democracy.

    The fundamental principle of Democracy is that the will of the voters takes precedence over the will of the (self-styled) leaders, no matter how superior that would-be aristocracy imagines itself to be. Besides, what justifies somebody calling themself a "leader" when nobody is following??

    This guy seems to imagine the United States the same way that the Democratic party does, as an oligarchy run by the supposed "best and brightest" (namely them... the media, the university professors, the financial moguls, the Hollywood celebrities, Obama's rappers, the career civil service) with the hated "them", the voters out in flyover country dismissed as "deplorables". People who get thrown out of their jobs by factory and mine closures decided in NY boardrooms or DC government offices, but supposedly too stupid to realize that it's all somehow supposed to be good for them. (Free-trade! The environment! Trickle-down economics !)

    I remained #NeverTrump, but conservatives I had known and worked with for more than two decades organized boycotts of my show. I was losing listeners.

    Sykes appears to have lost touch with his own listeners and with what moved them. Maybe he should have listened more and talked less. He was trapped inside his chosen conceptual bubble as Change (ironically, Obama's old slogan) happened outside. And he seems to have missed it.

    We [conservatives] empowered the worst and most reckless voices on the right. This is a moral failure at the heart of the conservative movement.

    Once again there's a whole collection of very insulting and dismissive implicit premises hidden in there.

    I’m not a part of it anymore.

    Does that matter? Your listeners seem to have stopped listening to you anyway.

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