Constitutional Carry

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Feb 24, 2017.

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  1. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Source

    Source
     
  2. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Source:
    Federal Judges Trample 'Militia' Aspect of 2nd Amendment
     
  3. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

  4. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I've been contemplating getting my CG permit, but it's harder than hell to get them where I live. And there is a whole of a let of paper work to fill out.
     
  5. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Damn typos!!!!!! It timed me out! :smile:
     
  6. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    What state to you live in?
     
  7. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    It's going to be interesting if the concealed carry reciprocity that Trump wants, gets passed. That will mean that a permit issued in a "shall issue" state has to be honored anywhere in the country, the same as a driver's license.
     
  8. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The freedoms that are guaranteed in the First and Second Amendments were novel experiments when they were first introduced and implemented by the nation's forefathers. Other western nations do not have those kinds of broad freedoms which, unfortunately, many Americans take for granted.

    In the 1700s, when the Bill of Rights were introduced, it was unusual to have a government that was subservient to the people (instead of the other way around). Nothing came close to the broad freedoms that were experimentally codified by the Bill of Rights, although the Magna Carta of the 1200s was a magnificent precedent. To this very day, the citizens of other nations are envious of the very unusual freedoms that Americans enjoy.

    The First Amendment seems to be firmly established, but the the Second Amendment seems to be under attack by some people who believe that only a government is qualified to have firearms. However, the American forefathers did not want the right of the people to be armed to be infringed upon by the government.
     
  9. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    California
     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    The firearms laws of this country are a confusing mess, exacerbated (in an ultimately good way) by more and more states relaxing restrictions by instituting reciprocity with other states, or in some cases (NH and Maine recently) eliminating the requirement for a permit altogether.

    I'm usually a believer in state's rights, but the right to bear arms is guaranteed in the Constitution, making it a Federal issue according to Article 6 Section 2 (the Supremacy Clause - the Constitution and Federal laws are supreme). Therefore, I think it's way beyond time for the Federal government to step in and clarify the issue.

    It's not exactly unprecedented; there is a Federal law (United States Code - Title 18 Sections 926B & 926C) that allows active and honorably retired law enforcement officers to carry a concealed handgun anywhere where United States law applies (all 50 states, plus territories, possessions, etc.), in spite of what any state or local laws say to the contrary.

    There was a period of growing pains; New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg apparently thought that NYC was a sovereign nation, and ordered the NYPD to arrest out-of-state officers carrying weapons in the city. There were only a few incidents, since most NYPD cops realized that was an unlawful order, but some followed through. All the cases were thrown out, and NYC bought several officers vacations homes, boats, or Harley Davidson motorcycles from the ensuing civil judgments.

    The most cogent point of this is that there hasn't been any bloodbaths or wild shootouts in the streets as the result of that law. Opponents cite that law enforcement officers receive training in the use of force, and that is true, but it's nothing that civilians couldn't undergo in a weekend of classroom instruction and then live fire on the range. I know some cops I wouldn't trust with sharp scissors, and many civilians who I'd take as backup any day of the week.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2017
  11. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

  12. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Here in California, we need a background check and a license to even think about guns. (They just passed a new law in November to require background checks to purchase ammunition.)

    Regarding concealed weapons permits, I understand that it's a county-by-county deal in the California Republic. Sheriffs offices may issue permits to local residents at their discretion. Some counties, mostly small counties in rural parts of the state, make that fairly easy. But most of the big urban counties make it nearly impossible, except for government employees and people like that.
     
  13. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    In every jurisdiction that has implemented shall issue in regards to concealed handgun permits, there has been a drop in violent crime. There was a very interesting journal article written about it;

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/91da/afbf92d021f06426764e800a4e639a1c1116.pdf
     
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Thanks to the passage of the LEOSA back in 2004, active-duty and retired law enforcement officers are now legally covered for nationwide carry. Prior to then, LEOs could not safely carry guns nationwide and in some extreme cases (prior to the passage of LEOSA), on-duty officers were arrested for crossing state lines with their guns. For civilians in the United States, it remains unsafe to carry guns nationwide, due to a patchwork of different laws in various states in the nation. If Trump's vision comes to pass, then it will be reminiscent of when the nation was originally founded.
     
  15. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    California's gun control laws are a mess because the standards are interpreted differently from county-to-county. Some county sheriffs make it easier to get a CCW permit than other county sheriffs - and other county sheriffs make it almost impossible to get a CCW permit.
     
  16. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Oh, one of those people.
     
  17. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Yeah, and I even like to go hang out in Hollyweird sometimes. :smile:
     
  18. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    California's "good cause" clause: Litigation in Peruta v. San Diego County

    That's in Los Angeles County where it has been historically almost impossible to get a CCW permit, due to the way the "good cause" clause is interpreted by the LASD sheriff. You can read the LASD sheriff's requirements here:
    http://shq.lasdnews.net/content/uoa/SHQ/ConcealedWeaponLicensePolicy.pdf

    The "good cause" clause is being litigated in Peruta v. San Diego County (at the time of this writing) and you can listen to a 4 minute YouTube discussion of it here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Up92UnOM8E

    It's being litigated in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
     
  19. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member


    I'll check it out! Thanks!
     
  20. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    It's not where you hang out but what hangs out in you.

    Or some such crap.
     

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