Bill pased to allow SERIOUSLY mentally ill person to buy guns?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Abner, Feb 18, 2017.

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  1. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    That includes people so seriously ill that they cannot attend to their own affairs. Did I hear this correctly? I don't feel like looking it up. If I am wrong, then I stand corrected.

    Is this a good idea? Just posing a question. What do you all think?
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

  3. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Hmm, It's not letting me open the link because I am not a subcriber? That's weird because I can view usually view WP articles with no problem.

    I did a search, is this the same article you posted?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/02/15/republicans-in-congress-just-made-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-get-guns/?utm_term=.859f376aeaa9
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2017
  4. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Geez! I guess I did hear correctly. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but that's just my opinion.

    I notice this distinction:

    "The Obama administration wrote a regulation saying that people who had applied for Social Security disability benefits because of a mental condition, and whose condition makes them incapable of managing their own finances"

    I believe this restriction was not for all SSDI recipients, but only for those who could not handle their own affairs. Unless I am reading it wrong. Probably depends on the severity of the mental illness.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2017
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    One of the problems here is that when most people hear "mental illness" they think of Jack Nicholson in The Shining. And there's such a strong stigma attached to it that even people who suffer from things like mild depression are strongly disincentivized from talking about it. This is a conversation that doesn't fit into politics well, because it requires nuance.

    That said, if you look at mass shootings, almost all of them have SSRIs in common. It's fair to ask whether the cure is often worse than the disease.

    (But I'm not a psychiatrist and I don't own a gun, so what do I know?)
     
  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    You bring up some very good points.
     
  7. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Historically, guns have been a States rights issue and Congress has not allowed the federal government to create a nationwide database of gun owners. Branches of the federal government that Congress prohibits from "collecting citizens' gun data information" include:
    - ATF
    - Social Security Administration
    - Etc.

    Individual States can create their own restrictive database, if their legislators choose to do so.
     
  8. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Well, I can see and understand those points as well. But as Steve said, there are varying forms of mental illness. A guy with major depressive disorder should be able to own a gun. On the other hand, a person who is Insane (psychosis), should not, but that is just my opinion. Bu then again, I don't know if an insane person would have the state of mind to buy and gun and fill out all the paperwork, I don't know because I am not a psychiatrist. I guess he could just go buy and unmarked gun off the street if he really wanted one.
     
  9. jhp

    jhp Member

    "The ban on mentally ill people buying guns wasn’t ever based on evidence"
    Jeffrey Swanson is a Professor in Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Duke University School of Medicine.

    "Social Security beneficiaries with psychiatric disabilities who are assigned a money manager for their disability benefits would be reported to the FBI’s background check database as people ineligible to purchase firearms."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/the-gop-is-making-it-easier-for-mentally-ill-people-to-buy-guns-they-have-a-point/?sf55539547=1&utm_term=.2766973a99b9
     
  10. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Abner, to address your concerns about mental health issues, it boils down to a twofold question:

    (1) Do you want the federal government to create a gun registry list of who can (and who cannot) own or possess firearms

    (2) through the Social Security Administration (or through any other branch of the federal government)?
     
  11. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member



    (1)Well, I have been evolving on this issue. The more that I think of it, the more I realize that certain gun registries can be a excercise in futility. If someone really wants a gun do something evil, they can just buy one of the street.

    (2) This still concerns me a bit. I imagine that there are plenty of people on SSDI that are mentally ill and are fully functional. Of course, there are varying level of mental illness. I think that someone who is Insane (psychosis), should not be able to purchase a gun. That's just my opinion. I can see the point you are making though.

    Oh, I forgot to thank you for that link to Father Janko's dissertation. I don't think I would have ever found it in the archives.
     
  12. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    I can and have purchased guns off of Craigslist. As you point out Abner, if you want to get one you can. Id like to add, you can kill just as many people with a car, but beer is legal. :beerchug:
     
  13. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    There are restrictions on who can buy and consume beer, who can buy and operate cars and the conditions under which both are to be stored and transferred.

    I'm steering clear of taking any actual position in this discussion, just making an observation.
     
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Maniac Craniac, your observation about alcohol regulation and drivers licenses is true. However, those restrictions are state-level and not federal. For example:
    - State laws govern alcoholic beverage sales.
    - State laws govern the issuance of drivers licenses.
    - State laws govern the issuance of concealed gun permits.

    Addressing Abner's concerns about mental health issues and gun possession boils down to a twofold question:
    (1) Do you want the federal government to create a gun registry list of who can (and who cannot) own or possess firearms
    (2) through the Social Security Administration (or through any federal branch)?

    It's a States rights issue. Should "guns rights" be taken away from the States, despite the Second Amendment? Congress prohibits the federal government from creating a federal gun registry list because it's not the Constitutional role of the federal government.
     
  15. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Hmm, let me ponder on that a while. I am taking my Irish lassie and mother-in-law out. We are going to see "Hidden Figures". Should be a good movie. Plus it's lunch time. Time to go wolf down some banh mis and a strawberry/banana boba. :smile:
     
  16. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member


    Heard it was a great movie, have fun. I loved the preview I saw.
     
  17. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the previews look really good. I'm starving now, gotta go!
     
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    What's the definition of "serious mental illness", who defines it, and how is it codified?

    My opinion is that any police officer who's worked in even a moderately busy environment has PTSD to some extent, and probably at least mild depression to go along with it. Does that qualify as "serious mental illness"? If it does, then police departments better plan on turning over the ranks of their street cops every 3-5 years and start paying out disability pensions by the boatload.

    Should there be an exception for law enforcement? If so, why should they be allowed to have access to firearms if they're "seriously mentally ill"? They're just as capable of going off and killing someone as anybody else.

    The answer, of course, is because this is just another attempt to subjugate the rights of citizens when it comes to owning firearms, a power grab. Another step down the very slippery slope of allowing the government to decide what rights you should be granted.
     
  19. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Yes, that is 100% correct. The Democrats have presented a non sequitur argument as justification for creating a nationalized federal gun registry list. Their non sequitur argument appeals to those who do not understand the nuances of Constitutional law -- and the Second Amendment.
     
  20. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    The anti-Freedom Dems never stop!
     

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