Secret Ledger in Ukraine Lists Cash for Donald Trump’s Campaign Chief

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Abner, Aug 15, 2016.

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  1. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/politics/paul-manafort-ukraine-donald-trump.html?ref=world&_r=0

    "Handwritten ledgers show $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments designated for Mr. Manafort from Mr. Yanukovych’s pro-Russian political party from 2007 to 2012, according to Ukraine’s newly formed National Anti-Corruption Bureau. Investigators assert that the disbursements were part of an illegal off-the-books system whose recipients also included election officials."

    Boy, Trump does has a history of doing business with "shady" characters.
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Stories like this often create more questions than they answer. The first question I have is, "Is the document real?"
     
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Manafort worked for Yanukovich and Party of Regions, for about a decade. That bunch was known for shady accounting and wads of cash; see the testimony of a double-turncoat Taras Chornovil in the article, for whatever it's worth (he is a son of a legendary Soviet dissident and political leader Vyacheslav Chornovil, who died in a very suspicious crash; Taras was one of the closest allies of pro-Western Viktor Yuschenko during 2005 Revolution who switched to his nemesis Yanukovich, before in turn abandoning Yanukovich for... well, no one will take him now). For anyone who follows Ukrainian events, this is not surprising or particularly newsworthy; OF COURSE they'll pay their lackeys in black cash under the table - you think they'd pay payroll taxes or VAT on political trickery? $12.7 million seem astronomical to ones unaccustomed to the epic levels of corruption in question; it is petty cash compared to how much main players benefit.

    Besides being Putin's "friend", Yanukovich came to power as part of a billionaire businessman Rinat Akhmetov's circle; the latter is a "man of authority" in Eastern Ukraine who would sue you if you mentioned "rumors" that he was/is a major crime boss "Akhmet", who started as an associate to Alexey Bragin reportedly known as "Alik the Greek". Mr. Akhmetov succeeded Mr. Bragin after Mr. Bragin was slain in a bombing.

    Degree trivia: Mr. Yanukovich is in possession of PhD and D.Sc. degrees in Management, as well as a Professor title. However, he does not come off as academic type, being notoriously inarticulate in his native Russian as well as in official Ukrainian language. He famously misspelled his academic title ("ProFFessor") and his job title (Prime Minister), among two dozen misspellings in a short form, when filing papers to run for President in 2004.

    In short, the takeaway here is that before The Drumpf, Manafort used to work for other rich political sleazeballs and murderous thugs; this was known before and is not seriously disputed. Drumpf's campaign chief appears to have no scruples whatsoever; one has to wonder if this is a position requirement or just a nice-to-have.
     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    For political balance: Bill Clinton made paid speeches at the Yalta Economic Forum for two or three years in the row. This event was a vehicle for another Ukrainian billionaire, Mr. Viktor Pinchuk, for trying to buy himself some respect. Mr. Pinchuk is self-conscious because people assume (quite correctly) that his amazing business success has less to do with his visionary awesomeness and more to do with the fact that he is married to the daughter of former President, Mr. Leonid Kuchma.
    (I realised how three local bigwigs in my comments are named Viktor. So far, Ukraine had 2 presidents named Leonid in a row, followed by 2 named Viktor. I guess by this pattern, a successor to the incumbent Petro Poroshenko will also be a Petro.)
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yanukovych is best-known (to me, anyway) for the incredible house he built himself with Ukrainians' money. I've heard his Mezhyhirya house cost something like $600 million US for the building and contents. $75 million for the building alone. Once built, Viktor proceeded to fill it with treasures, e.g. the first books printed in Ukraine (1654) and a set of chandeliers costing 53 Million.

    By one estimate, Viktor's skimming cost Ukraine $70 Billion in his last three years in office - one-third of Ukraine's GNP. Yanukovych lived in the Mezhyhirya house from 2002-2012, when he would up fleeing and seeking sanctuary from Vladimir Putin.

    Here's picture of the house -all five floors of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezhyhirya_Residence#/media/File:Honka_in_Mezhyhirya.jpg
    You can see the marble floors, the zoo, the antique car collection etc. on a tour. I read elsewhere, not on the tour-site that a couple of features might cost extra - e.g. the Porta-potty on the grounds - 10 hryvnia!

    All inclusive Ex*president’s residence tour | Kyiv Friendly Tours - Your personal guide to the heart of Ukraine

    J.
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yes. That guy. Ostrich farm, solid gold loaf of bread, friggin' Spanish galleon in a pond, all nine yards. The guy shared certain sense of decor with Trump, only even more tasteless (and wealthier - all looted from a poor country).
    Nice twist is that the land used to be government property and somehow got transferred to an offshore company. They even charged the government for its use as "offsite President's office" and for gas for an effing helicopter to make 15-min flight to Kyiv.
    As you can see, $13M to Manafort is pocket change. Comparable to pet food budget.
     
  7. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    In New York, try not doing business with shady characters.

    Manafort is a professional political operative so nothing is out of the question.
     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    No question about Manafort professionalism. He is very good at polishing turds for big bucks.

    Dealing with shadies successfully requires certain aptitude and state of mind. Are you sure that's what you want in a President?
     
  9. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    No, I did not want Obama and do not want Clinton.
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Manafort's client in Kyiv presided over bloody standoff in the capital (close to 100 civilians killed by sniper fire); there's a shooting war in the East now. So when you complain about "establishment" doing this or that, a bit of perspective is due. And, oh yeah - Trump already made the country worse, by legitimizing bigotry.

    One big positive: given decades of smears against Clinton and general anti-encumbent centiment, a sane Republican would actually have decent chance of winning this year. Squeaky-clean nominee like McCain or Romney would be a favorite (Romney was an out-of touch 1-percenter, but literally no actual dirt). Trump - not so much. So come November, we'll most likely thank him for helping to elect a first woman President (and the most qualified person in the race), Hillary Rodham Clinton.
     
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Even if you don't prefer Gary Johnson, it's a bit disingenuous not to admit he's the best qualified. Just sayin'.
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    OK, he's ALSO impressive :). And oh yeah, I do not prefer him, and he doesn't have a realistic chance.
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's amazing how many people treat their vote like the purpose is to predict the winner rather than express their preference who the winner should be.
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I'm not crazy about Libertarian platform, so HRC is both desirable and likely to win. This dynamics works for me, thank you very much :)
     
  15. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    That dynamic works for me as well. te he! :smile: Thanks Trump aka El Trompeta (The Trumpet)! Keep saying crazy shit!
     
  16. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  17. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

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