Jeb!

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Kizmet, Jan 18, 2016.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  2. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    His plan is socialism.
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Good. Doesn't go far enough, though.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    His plan isn't actually socialism, so it doesn't matter whether that would be good or not.

    Basically he wants to make up to $50,000 available to people, with participants repaying through income sharing rather than actual accounting. It seems to me that those with high income potential will seeking funding through different programs, leaving this program as a subsidy for education leading to low income professions. (One can argue that that's a good thing, but that's what it is.)

    The article doesn't put it this way, but he also basically wants to replace student loan companies with... the IRS. I may not love Navient, but come on Jeb, you really thought that would be a good idea?
     
  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    He's proposing a cooperative system for funding education, so it is socialism.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Meh, it may be designed to look cooperative, but it's really the subsidy I described.
     
  7. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Subsidies are socialism. The government has to get that money from taxpayers.
     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Socialism is when government owns the means of production. Conservatives and libertarians often use it as a synonym for "financed by taxpayers", but that's not what it actually means.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Our government--and our society--is riddled with socialism. Not surprising, since we're a society. We use a representative government in many, but not all, cases to carry out initiatives that provide for the collective good. For example, the military is socialism. The draft made it even more so, but it remains a socialistic endeavor to this day.
     
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    That is not the only form of socialism. For example, the parts of Spain that had anarchy during the civil war had socialism. Whenever people in a society come together and share resources, it is socialism. As Rich Douglas said, American society is riddled with socialism and people don't even realize it. I don't see anything wrong with it. I just get annoyed by people always complaining about this and that being socialism when they don't even know that they benefit from socialism everyday.
     
  11. jhp

    jhp Member

    Let's make a distinction of facets of socialism. I believe socialist economics is what I think we are discussing. My understanding is - The State controls all products, production, services and their outcomes. Individuals, small businesses maybe allowed to use such assets, but ultimately even their product belongs to the State. Large businesses are heavily controlled by the State. Profits do not exist, as production or service is reduced where it is "not needed". The State decides what is needed.

    As far as how much the State controls, and how much interferes with the market that can differ widely.

    #1 All educational institutions which charge below $50K would quickly adjust to the maximum allowed. This top cap would also creep upward fast because "poor teachers".

    #2 "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" - Karl Marx

    #3 would creep within a few years that everyone would have to pay into this system, irrelevant of taking advantage of the allowance.

     

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