revolution

I am not able to pay as much attention to the news as I might like but for the first time in a really long time I've found myself wondering "what's going on in the middle east today?" or "is it really possible that this middle east revolution could spread to north korea?" and even "what's the connection between the middle east revolution and what's happening in wisconsin?" c'mon degreeinfo! there's a LOT of smart people here! tell me what you think.

 

I try to be apolitical as much as is practical, and I certainly have not had the time to follow the situation as much as I would like. I am woefully under-qualified to be able to contribute meaningfully to a discussion on particulars.

I tend to view things from a humanist perspective. Any time I see things of this nature, it always makes me think of Carl Sagan. A brief excerpt:

The ruler of Guinea just bought a yacht that will cost more than the country spends on welfare services in a year. Say no more.

The state of leadership (as I understand it) in the Middle East is disgusting. It needs to be overthrown. I don't know if what will result will be any better; power vacuums tend to be filled by those most ready to do whatever it takes to gain power, and this personality type is, by definition, prone to enjoy the advantages of that power. The path to corruption is a slippery slope. But, only through change is opportunity made for improvement.

Plus, I'm just a fan of civil disobedience in general, so I think it's pretty cool to see people buck the system. Quadaffi is a fruitcake, he needs to go. Il is really genuinely nuts, and the whole country needs to be turned on its head.

 

Best thing I've read all day!
I hope you watched Glenn Beck why you where on Fox!

As far as the middle east thing, when I lived in Connecticut one of my good friends was Egyptian and he used to say how things would never change there when they all wanted it. I used to ask him why they didn't demand it and he explained about the police powers. I'd like to talk to him now to see how happy he must be that things have actually changed.

To give you a little idea of how oppressive it was, my friend Abdu was a lawyer in Alexandria and his family was very prominent in the snack cake business. Sort of like the Hostess of Eygpt. He was a proponent of western style government. He organized rallies and such, he is married to an American woman, high rise apartment across the street from the beach and Mediterranean sea, very very successful. He moved to the US because he was so relentlessly persecuted by the police he feared for his and his children's life. In the US he lived in a run down apartment above his grandfather in law, drove a broken down old car, worked a hard very demanding factory job (I was his supervisor) and also a 25 hour a week par time job at a full serve gas station. He had no problems being poor and working his butt off here because he said at least he wasn't afraid any more.

 

Just a little something to chew on.

I am sitting here watching the Middle Eastern "Press TV" as I write this reply. This station is very, very, very anti-western and call the recent wave of protests and violence and "Islamic Awakening". I am living and working in Saudi Arabia and we are currently without the recent unrest, although it is rumored that it is coming 11 March. I do have very mixed thoughts on this issue.

First I must say that I am in no way a expert in these issues or even consider myself educated on them. I just live here and watch some tv, lol.

I agree that alot of these governments are or can be at times, very oppressive. Saying this, I can completely understand where they must be this way at times, just to keep control. This area is very "tribal" in their nature and this could easily casue unrest and segregation if not controlled. With all the money these countries have, they are still very underdevloped and juvenile in the grand scheme of things. Take my city - Riyadh, 50 years ago it was literally not here, 30 years ago it was only a basiclly large village with very few shops/restraunts/etc. Plus you must always consider the radical religious views that are very prevelant here. I wont go into this and how it affects the society as I refuse to be looked on negatively for my "anti-islamic views".

Now without a doubt there is unemployment, corruption, and dictatorship in these countries but we must take some things into consideration.

Unemployment, they have brought it upon themselves in some places. Take Saudi, there is no or very minimal amounts of Saudis working minimal wage type of jobs and there are NO Saudis working any form of labor intensive jobs. These are reserved for the migrant laborers. Also each household has a migrant worker or 10 that are maids, drivers, maintenance, etc, etc. SO if you take all these workers(basically slaves) out of the equation and get of their butts, there is a ton of employment opprotunities here.

With the "inshallah" version of how things should work, noone wants to take responsibility for doing anything and "leave it in God's hands". So movement will always be slow. and following the traditional conservative Islamic view, things will be very restrictive until they separate politics and religion.

They have self-entitlment issues, some think they are the chosen ones and are entitled to the wealth and easier life. Lets look the Kings, Princes, Sheiks, and other Royalty (can be a very long list - several THOUSAND princes in Suadi). Because of their bloodline they are entitled to enormous wealth and privelege. Not because they have went to school & earned a Master or Doctorate in political science and worked their way up the political food chain. No - they were born into their enormous wealth of knowledge about politics, economics, foreign affairs, military affairs, etc. Makes sense to me that they would obviously be in charge of the country. Unfortunately a majority of people usually believe this as well and therefore it is "supposed to be this way".

You have lack of education. Yes people have degrees, but they are not educated. I work in the medical field and currently am training new graduate doctors in emergency medicine. These guys are clueless for the most part and most don't care to learn. So if the top of the educational food chain is in this state, imagine what the lower end would be like, it can be scary at times. An educated few with great ideals leading the flock to the fight.

Egypt - they took out the boss and left the government in the hands of the military. Hmmm, where has their governmant been based for the last 40-1000 years - military, the best general gets the job. Yes they are getting some reforms but how much will this change things and how much will actualy change in the long term????

Other countries - You get rid of the regime, now what? let one of the earlier mentioned shepherds take over and rule with his own brand of corruption, or let a religious radical take over and have a very conservative and oppresive but "Islamic friendly" government??????

Lybia - The dude is whacked, that simple, just listen to his latest speech. Yes he needs to go but what will happen when he does. Of course we(US, UK, European nations) will have a big hand in what actually happens, we already have forces setting up military bases and relationships, as we speak, in country. This will be interesting how it plays out

I agree that there are many problems that need to be addressed and some things need to change, but is this really the best solution??????? I agree that the general person is living in a very oppresive country, but what will they do to change it, other than shout and throw rocks. Do thes people really have a bomb-proof plan on how to change things once they topple the regimes? For their sake and our's, I hope so.

One thing for certain, it is a big ol' mess right now.

 

I recall talking to students at Stanford when the Shah was overthrown - they were all happy (even though the Shah regime paid for their Stanford education). I wonder what their position is now.

 

Could the revolution spread to North Korea?

Asia Times Online :: Korea News and Korean Business and Economy, Pyongyang News

I have the feeling that this thing that's happening in the Middle East is the biggest thing since the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

 

Jordan seems to be joining the party.

AFP: Thousands call for reform on Jordan 'Day of Anger'