Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Abner, Sep 28, 2006.

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  1. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  2. wannabeit

    wannabeit New Member

    How much longer do we have to get **** before we get the messages. Come on folks, tell me what can be done to these scumbags who're screwing us. We can't protest because of the fear of getting killed, maimed, or thrown in jail. Especially with this new detention (torture) bill coming up. That's all we need is to get arrested and tortured because we protested against the government. Voting may not be a good solution. Yeah, we can try to vote them out. But who do we replaced them with? I really think the answer is right in front of us. I guess we may have to wait until the majority can't take it anymore.

    By the way, 21 Billions dollars would do alot of good for our country.
     
  3. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

  4. MrLazy

    MrLazy New Member

    What I got out of that article is...

    1) A U.S. company was given a contract to build the Baghdad Police College.

    2) The U.S. company subcontracted much of the building to an Iraqi firm.

    3) The Iraqi firm was not supervised by the U.S. company and the Iraqi firm did the substandard work.

    4) State department's solution...Give the contracts directly to Iraqi firms.

    Does anybody else see the stupidity in that?
     
  5. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    Probably not. The reason why history professors used to have a rule that one must wait 100 years (then 50 years, and now 25 years) after the deaths of the major players in an event in order for something to be "real history" (with that event belonging in "current events" over in the poli sci dept. until then) is that it is so difficult for people to detatch themselves from the passions of the moment and so it is better to await the rising of a new generation that knows of an event only as a history book sort of thing before rendering "the judgement of history" upon an historical event.
     
  6. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    Thank you for playing...

    The performance of the senior military leadership is similar to the senior military leadership of the allies in WWI - who simply kept throwing bodies at the central powers - relying on attriton to eventually carry the day.

    A huge amount of $$$ is being wasted, lives are being lost...because of the failings of the senior military. Take a good look - the failure to establish law and order, the failure to immediately implement civil affairs - the decision to disband the military and the police - the senior military leaders are simply "muddling through" - and now the situation in Iraq is likely irretrievable.
     
  7. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    Exactly! A complete failure perpetrated by a loser who happens to be in charge of the United States of America! Let's not forget they claimed this war would be over in 10 days.


    Abner
     
  8. wannabeit

    wannabeit New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    Jim, you'd pointed out the problems but I don't hear any solution. Am I to believe that no one cared? We can complains and critiziced but yet we don't have the wills to do anything about it.

    Seriously, I keep seeing all type of articles being posted and all it does is remind us how stupid we are. I don't mean it in a ridiculed manner. I meant it in the powerlessness of the people.

    I also have another question for you? (on a more serious notes) Please correct me if I'm wrong. I remember back in the days, in order to get a government contract the company has to at least subcontracts 10% of the businesses to a minority group. Do you know how many minority groups Haliburton has subcontracted to (American minority) businesses in Iraq.

    FYI, Haliburton has over 90% of the government contracts.

    No, I am not playing. I'm serious.


    I valued your opinions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2006
  9. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    Buzzz...and thank you for playing...

    The US is not a 7-11, the Prez has to rely on several layers of people in order to get anything done - blaming him for p-p execution is ignorant. However, his failure to take corrective action IS his failure.
     
  10. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    I think that most people don't know enough to separate the failures of the senior leadership (and the culture of "my career first" goes down a long way) from the scarifices of the junior military on the ground. At a time when tours in country are being extended and tours away from the ME are being shortened - an amazing number of uniforms have NEVER pulled a tour.

    Re: the 10% minority subcontracting - can you reference it?
     
  11. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan


    I hear what you are saying about the Prez. However, he holds the highest position of all. So I do blame him directly, along with all of his minions. I believe this is only one of many, many failures that will be discovered.


    Abner
     
  12. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    And, ultimately, you are correct - the "buck" stops with the President.

    I have no doubt that he and Rumsfeld have no idea why things aren't going "according to plan".

    Again, you are watching history in the making - the senior military leadership simply does not have what it takes for this - and they are not losing any sleep over this - any one seen any resignations lately?
     
  13. wannabeit

    wannabeit New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    Thank you for responding. You were in the military and you probally know alot about leadership in the military.

    So, we are in the agreement that our leaderships are in array. So, what can we do? I know this may sound like a juvenile question.

    10%? I don't have a reference for this but back in the 80's a friend of mind was told by the federal government in order to secured a contract with them they would have to subcontract at least 10% of the business to a minority groups. (People of colors, Disables and Women)

    The reason that I've brought this up, is because while the people are bickering about the abuses and waste of our government spending, no one is seriously questioning or challageing the major company. (Haliburton) Of course, the media has touch the possibility of frauds with this company but for some strange reason the story died out.

    My point is why are we blaming the fiascos of the iraqs infrastruture and war on the iraqi?

    Someone in charge (Haliburton) should be held responsible. If the job isn't getting done why are we still giving our money to this company. In the corporate world if someone is not doing a good job they would be replaced immedially. I'm intelligent enough to know that it is a lot easier to complain then to actually do something about it.

    How long????
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2006
  14. MrLazy

    MrLazy New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    May I ask where you got the above percentage? Based upon what I could find on Iraq rebuilding contracts, Halliburton has nowhere close to 90% of the contracts.
     
  15. wannabeit

    wannabeit New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan



    I'm sorry I'm not able to give you the exact references to the 90%. I Honestly don't remember exactly where I've gotten this information. However, I can give you these sites that pretty much sum up what I've been trying to convey. But, if you could shed some light on my allegations and provides an exact percentages, it would certainly be appreciated. The bottom line is this, we are being ripped off by these companies and doing nothing about it.


    http://www.opensecrets.org/news/rebuilding_iraq/index.asp

    http://www.veteransforpeace.org/10_US_contractors_042804.htm

    http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/contractindex.htm

    http://www.export.gov/iraq/
     
  16. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    State of Denial

    The book paints the administration as clueless, dishonest, and dysfunctional. The behind-the-scenes anecdotes are irresistible. Laura Bush telling her husband he should fire Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Vice President Cheney pushing aides to call the chief weapons inspector in the middle of the night with coordinates for a site in Syria that might have those elusive weapons. Secret White House visits by Henry Kissinger. Bush having to tell Rumsfeld to return Condoleezza Rice's calls. Memos describing Rumsfeld's "rubber glove syndrome"—he didn't want to leave fingerprints on decisions.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2150601
     
  17. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    I especially agree with your last statement. I suppose the party in control believes they have God on their side, and they will merely be "born again"? Perhaps this is why they do not lose any sleep? They are on a religious crusade, in their minds anyways. So sad. Or perhaps it had nothing to do with that. It sounded good anyway.

    Jim, I see from your profile you are a decorated Vet. I would like to thank you for your service!


    Abner :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2006
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    Didn't this supposedly "reformed" party animal in the White House "declare vgictory" in Iraq two years or so ago? Why are we still there?
     
  19. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan

    This "loser" is in the White House - I'm sorry, where are you? ;)

    With all due respect, if you want to be taken more seriously, you need to think about the way you express yourself.
     
  20. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraq police college a symbol of failed U.S. plan


    Exactly!


    Abner :)
     

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