Sign Petition to Investigate Wiretaps

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Laser100, Feb 7, 2006.

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  1. Laser100

    Laser100 New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2006
  2. protectoro2001

    protectoro2001 New Member

    I hate to start an argument, but.....

    I know this will create a massive argument, but I must throw my two cents worth in. As far as Bush authorizing the use of wiretaps to investigate potential terrorist activities, he is ultimately responsible as President of the United States to defend and protect the office of the President, and the people of whom he serves. That means each and every one of us!

    If you are not participating in criminal, terrorism related activities, you have no worries regarding the phone taps. If you are taken part in terrorism against the United States, then tough shit when you are spied on. You get what you deserve.

    I had friends who died when the towers fell. I have had friends who died since then, while dealing with these scumbags. If there are more of these scumbags living on American soil, planning assualts against American citizens, then we must do whatever necessary to stop them. Its only a matter of time that the US will begin experiencing suicide bombers in there malls, restaurants, and schools. This is an unfortunate reality, but it will eventually happen. If you doubt it, you are living in a make belive world and wearing a blindfold through life. If we can reduce the number of wanna-be martyrs living in the US before they strap a 10 pound explosive around their chest filled with ball bearings and nails, then we reduce the chance that one of these assholes will kill my wife and child, or you and your family while there shopping in the local mall on a Friday night.

    Just might thoughts, hope I havent pissed to many people off!

    Brian Stevens, CPP
    Protective Security Specialist
     
  3. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  4. Laser100

    Laser100 New Member

    Don't let them win.

    If you allow the terrorist to take away the fundamental right for freedom of speech then they have already won.
     
  5. Laser100

    Laser100 New Member

    The simple right to say, "I love you" without the government monitoring you is what I'm talking about.
     
  6. tigerhead

    tigerhead New Member

    Re: Don't let them win.

    I guess it depends on how you define "won". One could also maybe define "letting them win" by allowing them to take advantage of our privacy laws and use that against us. Now don't get me wrong I am not at all a Bush fan, just the opposite, and I understand your viewpoint here. But in my limited and grossly underqualified oppinion, it is reasonable to use wiretapping in an attempt to prevent a terrorist attack and save lives. Think about it this way, if they could have prevented 9/11 by the aid of a wire tap, wouldn't it be worth it? Woudn't it be worth it to save the lives of all of those people, mothers, fathers, husbands, sons and daugthers? In my view yes it is well worth it.
     
  7. tigerhead

    tigerhead New Member

    I see your point here, but personally I could care less if the government hears me telling my wife "I love you" or fussing at me for being late for dinner. As long as they have not taken away my right to say what I want and to whom I want to say it I don't feel my rights are being violated. These are different times we live in today, and we are dealing with extreme people who will stop at nothing to kill us.
     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Re: I hate to start an argument, but.....

    The first thing he's responsible to is the Constitution. What he's doing contravenes that. The whole point is that in our civilization the government isn't supposed to be able to do whatever it pleases. What's the point of adopting fascist methods to defeat fascism?

    Let me ask you something. Do you support repeal of the Fifth Amendment? Given what you said, if not, why not?

    -=Steve=-
     
  9. tigerhead

    tigerhead New Member

    Re: Re: I hate to start an argument, but.....

    This is a very sensitive issue, and beleive me I understand were you are coming from here. Please allow me to make a stupid comparison. I know that every time I get on an airplane that I am quite glad that someone is screening my luggage and looking in my shoes and my briefcase etc, is this a violation of my right to privacy? Maybe, but I think we are all quite glad that the airlines are taking these security measures and I know we all clearly see the need for it and understand the reasons why. I don't really see a difference between this and wiretapping and if you have nothing to hide what's the problem? This are different times and wiretapping has just become another neccessary security measure to help ensure our safety, no different than what happens every day at the airport, thats how I see it anyway.
     
  10. Lajazz947

    Lajazz947 New Member

    Wiretapping

    I'll make this short:

    A good friend of mine is from Israel

    He has family living there

    His Mother fears going to the local shopping mall in a bus

    He says we won't fully support the war on terror here in the US until a bus blows up in front of the Beverly Center in Beverly Hills or in Century City killing scores of people

    I agree with him

    He says that the majority of us have not learned even after 3000 people died at WTC

    He asks 'what will it take for us to learn "

    He says the government can wiretap his phones forever as far as he's concerned as long as they protect him

    I agree with him

    I agree that the Constitution and Bill of Rights must be safeguarded

    I also agree that both those documents must be interpreted according to circumstance

    But.....strict adherence to those documents will not stop a terrorist

    Accurate interpretation and working within the framework to protect us MAY stop a terrorist

    Wiretap away if it will stop a terrorist
     
  11. lspahn

    lspahn New Member

    Re: Don't let them win.

    Does anyone seriously think that as a citizen i have the right to secretly conspire with the enemy, wheater its terrorist, communist, nazis, whatever, and not have the people responsible take notice? This has been addressed before. If you are a spy, THEY DONT NEED A WARRENT. There is no difference between a spy and a terrorist. Both seek to harm the USA. A terrorist has the benefit of not having a official country.

    So if the other side was running the show what you are saying is that if you can get a couple of you guys into our country they will be able to talk and plan freely without any worry of being caught? Onec again does this also stand true for spys from say China? Once again i hear alot of what not to do and absolultly no plans to do it a different way. I am open to other plans for victory, but victory has to be the goal.

    The 9/11 resolution gave The President the power to persue ANY INDIVIDUALS OR ORGANIZATIONS that may threaten the US with terrorism. ANY means ANY. Not just out side the US..ANY means ANY..If there is anyone who was confused with what the word "is" means this could be a problem.

    Now, I respect that fact that people care, and this place is one of the few places people remain pretty civil. So with that said let me throw this out there. How come this is so important to liberals when they basicly like to distort the consitution as a matter of process? I mean there is no right to privacy (abortion), I have a right to carry a gun, Affermative action, Freedom of Religion not freedom from, Activist Judges, so on....I mean the list goes on and on. SO my question is...why is this so important, or is it because it is Bush doing it?

    I am not a real big bush fan, but it scare the absolute crap out of me to think that if the Dems were runnig the show what they say they would do different. If they were leading the war it may be less painless to go ahead and jump into traffic...Has anyone ever had to deal with a bully? What happens when you play nice and try to make peace?? Anyone??? It encourages the bully. What do you do? I fight....cant speak for others.

    IMHO.....
     
  12. Laser100

    Laser100 New Member

    Don't believe the distortion.

    This administration is selling you the false ideology that they cannot protect our country without breaking the law. The FISA allows the government to tap anyone for up to 72 hours without a warrant. During this period the government agency conducting the wiretap needs to apply for the proper warrant. In the history of this program, less than a handful of warrants have been turn down. This administration doesn't need to break the law through bypassing the FISA because it is very easy for the administration to achieve the proper judicial clearance needed to conduct wiretaps.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2006
  13. lspahn

    lspahn New Member

    Re: Don't believe the distortion.

    Another fact is that it is illegal for an idiot president like carter to sign away powers set aside in the constitution. Which he did... Histoy will show him to be the worst in known world history!! The 9/11 report even stated that the FISA court was too slow of a process. Once again, I would love to hear an effective solution to the problem. If there is another way I want to hear it

    Really this whole discussion doesnt matter. Thanks to the "patriots" at the New York Times the bad guys know what we are doing and have changed tactics.

    We are talking about phone calls going to known enemys of the state!! Not to mom-mom in kansas, but abdul in damascus. I dont care who they are from. I want them all listened too. You guys would have them not listen to the most important calls. The ones coming from the US.
     
  14. Laser100

    Laser100 New Member

    Doesn't need anything more than immediate access.

    How does having immediate (72 hour) access prevent the president from doing his job?

    It doesn't slow him down because it is immediate. If he cannot get a warrant past the 72 hour deadline then he doesn't need to be tapping that phone anyway.
     
  15. tigerhead

    tigerhead New Member

    Re: Don't believe the distortion.

    What is it that you think the administration is trying to do with the wiretapping? Are they genuingly trying to catch and prevent terriost, or are they just trying to infringe on our rights and piss off the Dems, which for the record I happen to be a Dem??

    Now, I am very anti-Bush myself, but I really have to believe that the administration is taking what it sees as appropriate action to defend against terrorism, and this action seems very appropriate to me regardless of what the law says. The lawyers can hash out the legal stuff, which I am not qualified to comment on, but if we just judge the intention of the administration and what they are trying to do, In my view it is appropriate action.
     
  16. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: I hate to start an argument, but.....


    Good points Steve.


    Abner :)
     

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