With who? With the Muslim world? ROFLMAO! I saw on NBC news last night that a militant Muslim group in Indonesia pledged to suspend attacks on Australians and native Christians so long as aid was coming in. How nice of them!
I'm guessing that the Arab street will see some conspiracy about America's participation no matter what we do. However, for those people actually getting the aid, I think they will remember the help they receive from those fresh faces distributing critical aid. Perhaps, one show of brotherhood can elicit another. At least that's what I hope.
Well, no. State-run Arab media are 'lowing as how them evil Jews and the Great Shaitan caused the thing with atomic bomb experiments in order to kill Muslims. The Indonesian government is in cahoots with terrorists, occasional show trials for the benefit of the Aussie media notwithstanding. Since no matter what we do, we will be denounced, we might as well do the right thing, which is, of course, sending as much aid as we can possibly manage.
Who Cares? What is this incessant need to want to feel loved? Who cares what the "rest of the world" (i.e., the french and other people who will hate us no matter what we do). Just do the right thing and stop worrying. And do the thing that is in OUR best self interest, just like every other sovereign nation does.
Re: Who Cares? I have heard this mentioned before but where is hard evidence that the French hate the US ? Where is the data to support this claim and who else do they hate or like? I suspect this hate story is an urban myth. From my experience, and that of friends and acquaintances, the French people appear to love the US people.
I agree with Ian. Morever personally I feel that renaming French Fries to Freedon Fries made the Congress look so childish..
Does American earthquake/tsunami aid help improve our international image? Of course it does. The real question is how much and among whom. I think that the effect will be greatest among those who were already predisposed to like the US. It will be least among those who imagine the US as the great satan. That applies to Muslims in Indonesia as much as Buddhists in Sri Lanka and Thailand. Militant Islamists will probably be moved the least, while the more laid-back and culturally tolerant Abangans down in Java will probably be more appreciative. Ironically, the most militantly Islamist region of Indonesia was probably Aceh. In some of the devastated areas, where survivors hung on for days and the first outside aid to arrive came by American helicopter, there may really be a new appreciation for America. It's hard to say. But it is kind of telling that one of the first cries that went up after the disaster was "Where's America?" There's a real love-hate thing going on out there in much of the world, with people denoucing the US while simultaneously dreaming of moving here. People criticise us ruthlessly while they implicitly place deep trust in our good instincts and benevolence. It isn't always consisent, but humans rarely are.
Re: Re: Who Cares? I agree, having travelled extensively throughout Europe, I don't think the majority of Europeans hate Americans. Most Europeans are intelligent and can separate the people from the government. Suffice to say, I think a great number of Europeans hate the current adminstration. Are the French arrogant? Speaking only generally, the French, much like the American culture, are very nationalistic and have their own value system. Is this arrogant? Perhaps - but no more arrogant than the American culture. I am no GW fan, and think his initial response, much like his initial response to 9/11, was wimpy and showed a lack of command presence. However, he has come forward and put a lot of effort and money up front. He even donated $10G of his own funds - I commend his for this action. All in all, not matter what we do as a government, or as a people, we will still have detractors especially in Indonesia. I can only hope two things: 1. We focus on the victims and not the detractors. 2. The Muslim fundamentalists do not try to go up against our military in this humanitarian effort. That would be catastrophic for both sides. (is our military armed during these types of missions? -- I never have been on a strictly humanitarian mission so I don't know) Happy New Year
In response to jugador Quote In fact, helicopters have already been attacked upon landing in Nicobar and the Andaman Islands (arguably the most uncivilized area on earth) but that had nothing to do with Muslim fundamentalism. unquote The helicopters attacked were Indian helicopters and NOT American. Also Andaman and Nicobar islands are Indian territories. The tribes that attacked the helicopters have had no contact with the external world and are known to attack outsiders even under normal circumstances.
I never said the attacked helicopters were American nor did I mean to suggest they were -- only that attacks on relief forces had already taken place. I also am aware the Andaman and Nicobar Islands are Indian possessions. The point is that the whole region is volatile and relief missions are dangerous. Piracy, for example, runs rampant throughout the 14,000 islands that form the Indonesian Archipelago. It is perhaps the most lawless region on earth. -- certainly from a maritime perspective
No, it hasn´t help built up the US image at all. On the contrary the Arab press has already begun an intoxication campaign by publicly saying that the tsunami occurred because of a US nuclear test carried out in the Indian Ocean Honestly, it is so depressing to read this type of comments by people with influence in the Arab world. When the 9/11 terrorist attacks ocurred, there was a widespread rumor that it has been perpetrated by Jews who had previously informed all Jewish occupnats at the towers. Never mind that the assassins were alreadyidentified or that Osama himself recognized the massacre..... These theories got a lot of attention in countries like France, a US ally (!!). A French bestselling book " proved" that the attack to the Pentagon hadn´t really taken place and so on. These are the type of things that when heard by a decent person one feels like vomiting of disgust. This is the type of enemy the US is facing. I don´t think it really matters to them that you donate one two or twenty billion.
ALI BULAC 01.10.2005 Monday Unnatural Disasters Is the earthquake that affected 10 countries in Southern Asia and the massive tsunami that followed a "natural disaster" or an "unanticipated manmade accident"? This is a terrifying question. According to a known principle in physics, when a mass tumbles, its force, momentum and destructive power increase. The spirit of our time goes in line with this principle. From this perspective, this is a question worth asking. As much as science, the human mind and technology improve, mental faculties of man and his responsibility to weigh what he has done according to the criteria of conscience decrease, and he becomes more apathetic and destructive towards existence, life and the purpose of genesis day by day. The disaster is tremendous. According to the numbers announced so far, 150,000 dead, one-third of them children, 500,000 wounded, and five million people homeless. In fact, the levels of casualties and material damage are higher. Some experts say, "No earthquakes in the Indian Ocean can cause such a destruction." This arouses some suspicions. One of the possibilities that first comes to mind is "nuclear tests." It is claimed that India and Israel conducted seven nuclear tests in the Indian Ocean within the last few months, yet it is being speculated for a few days that the United States might have conducted a test, which "exceeded its dosage a little bit." According to news reports in the Arab media, the so-called tests have been continuing since 1992. Arab countries had issued warnings a few months ago calling for the tests to be stopped. It is known to everyone that "new techniques" have been used in recent wars. By interfering with the meteorological environment, "temporary weather conditions" have been created. The United States tried this during the Kosovo intervention. Weather conditions suddenly worsened, and in the meantime, the U. S. launched air raids. In the attack launched on Afghanistan, rockets that create an "earthquake effect" were used. Rockets that were fired from the Indian Ocean 2,000 kilometers away, exploded at depths of 30 or 40 meters on target and created an earthquake effect, and in this way suspected caves in which Taliban members sought shelter could be demolished. A region locally demolished, triggers motion along fault lines in a larger area and causes new earthquakes. This issue is not much on the agenda of geologists, who study earthquakes. It is accepted in principle that nuclear tests pave the way for movements of the earth's structure and maybe cause some new jolts, however, there is no information on any earthquake that has occurred due to this or that test. Looking at the conspiracy theories, these kinds of earthquakes are scheduled, planned and systematic. Behind each planned earthquake, there is a certain political, military and geo-strategic calculation. Maybe we do not have concrete data to rely upon, however, it is a reality that nuclear tests frequently repeated with military, political and geo-strategic aims might cause great earthquakes. Then, why do they not lead to any visible results when nuclear tests are conducted in gigantic dimensions? Undoubtedly, huge and destructive earthquakes have occurred throughout history, however, it is possible to say that the recent earthquakes differ from the ones in the past, with two characteristics: One of them is the emergence of an articulate continuity between the earthquakes, and the other is their destructive effects reaching very acute levels in line with their scales. If what have been said are true, then we might expect new earthquakes in the upcoming period. Those who believe that the Southern Asian earthquake was not a "natural disaster" but a "manmade accident" say that new big earthquakes will occur in the Mediterranean and Red Sea in the near future. Those who occupy countries, using alleged weapons of mass destruction as an excuse, are now plunging a whole planet into a threat. It is necessary to think about what kind of precautions can be taken against this serious trend. Zaman is a Turkish conservative newspaper
I would have to say no. Did anyone see that picture of the teenage Muslim in Indonesia grabbing a box of US military MREs? He was wearing an Osama Bin Laden T-shirt!
Hi JLV: Thanks for the sample of enlightened, secular, EU, well, you know... More news (seen on MSNBC): Indonesia won't let any US military in the aid operation stay on shore overnight or set up any camps. All aid facilities must be set up and taken down each day. The Indonesian government said this is to downplay the US presence.
I saw the same news on Fox. (Everything I know, I learned on Fox.) I don't know what's up with the Indonesian military. Perhaps they fear a foreign military force getting a stronger foothold in Aceh than they have. Aceh, after all, has had a chronic seperatist insurgency going for years and has been under Indonesian martial law. The tsunami probably impacted the military harder than the rebels, since the rebels were most likely in the hills while the army occupied the coastal cities. Unfortunately, the coastal cities were kind of erased by the disaster. So perhaps the military feared that they were losing their grip, and foreigners able to field lots of ships and helicopters were filling the vacuum. It's hard to say what ideas are rattling around the heads of the brass in Jakarta. But as usual, the ones to suffer are the civilians who need aid most desperately.
