This Forum is Soooooooo Tedious

The highly partisan jousting on this forum is very tiresome. I don't read it all (I like staying sane) but as someone who truly hasn't made up their mind on who they are voting for, each negative attack on candidate X scores points for candidate Y in my mind. I can't stand all this negativity, more so since I think most of it is pure bunk with more spin than a bey blade.

In my mind, each candidate is a worthy representative of their party's ideas and vision. They are both respectable men and neither are deserving of all these partisan attacks. Debate the issues people. Refrain from rhetoric. Or else you'll drive people like me to vote for the other candidate. You see, in addition to voting for the man, I want to make sure that the people or party he represents are also honorable and respectable. So far, from where I stand, many of you just are not.

 

I meant to say, "each negative attack on candidate X scores points for candidate X in my mind." Simply because the negative attack makes the attacker look bad and as a proponent of candidate Y, they make candidate Y look bad.

Hmmmm, perhaps I would be all the more clear if I would write all this down in first order logic.

 

While I like discussing politics -- as the presidential election draws closer, this forum has devolved into a series of attacks on one candidate or the other. I'll be glad when the election is over and the winning side has completed their gloating. Perhaps then this forum can increase its interest level for me.

 

I love that the moderators made a political forum right now for just this reason.... I think we all feel what you are saying, just be warned when you enter into this area.....

 

There is nothing tedious about the future of this country and the man who will lead it. It is a very complicated, dangerous world.

Perhaps you'd like to see this forum reduced to a "nuisance."

 

Jimmy and I agree... for a change!

Jimmy,
I couldn't agree with you more on your last point.

This is serious business.

Is it tedious at times? For those who are not particularly engaged in the debate, yes.

Do we "take ourselves too seriously" at times? Well duh! We wouldn't be academics if we didn't, now would we?

All in all, I enjoy the exchange, wish none who disagree with my positions any ill will whatsoever, and hope and pray that our nation will survive and prosper during the dangerous years ahead as we face down a growing Islamist movement of hatred towards our nation, its policies and practices, and our very way of life.

Now this is where I'll get partisan again. We need intelligent and thoughtful leadership to see us through these times. Not just a gun slingin' "yee hah" approach. Who will deliver that leadership style? Not Bush, that's for sure.

By way of an olive branch here to my conservative counterparts on this board, I did watch "Frontline" last night that contained an excellent summary of John Kerry and George W. Bush covering their origins, political beginnings, emerging careers as politicians, and finally the last few years and the various moves each has made in governing our nation. It was definitely food for thought, and I came away (still convinced that I'm voting for Kerry) with a newfound respect for George W. Bush and his leadership style.

The scary thing, though, is that George W. is actually FAR more conservative than his dad. And much more conservative than most people think he is. The "born again" thing colors his every move, and it is highly dangerous for us in this day and age to have someone leading the most powerful nation on earth who refers to the ancient texts of rather violent desert nomads as his ultimate guide for decision making.

In the process, too bad he doesn't remember the main lesson from our Christian Bible - "Do unto others as you would they would do unto you".

- Carl

 

Re: Jimmy and I agree... for a change!

Hi Carl,

I drank a Diet Pepsi in honor of our agreement (Miracles do happen, ha!)

Your comment regarding "W's" conservatism fascinates me. I just don't see him as a conservative. I see him as a moderate.

Funding for stem cell research, No Child Left Behind, $15 billion to combat AIDS in Africa, appointing more blacks to high office than any other President, cautioning us to be careful about condemning gays as sinners because we all sin, etc., just doesn't sound like conservatism to me.

 

I wish G.W. was a lot MORE conservative than he is.

BLD

 

I like this forum

Hi,

I like this forum, it is popular, which allows an opportunity to get information across to others pretty easily.

I was slightly annoyed by Dr John Bear investigated me, but with his reputation, I guess that is understandable.

I am not here to make enemies, just add to my knowledge.

Sure, there are cranks here who, for whatever reason, will cry "shill" or "troll" at anybody who disagrees with them. But that happens in life in general.

What a boring place it would be if we all agreed?

I just think that personal attacks should be moderated out. Disagreements should remain, they are a fact of life.

Fred

 

<<The "born again" thing colors his every move, and it is highly dangerous for us in this day and age to have someone leading the most powerful nation on earth who refers to the ancient texts of rather violent desert nomads as his ultimate guide for decision making. >>

I actually think much of the problem with modern America is its ignorance and disregard of those ancient texts of rather violent desert nomads.


Pug

 

I'm not really hopeful that things will improve, either here on Degreeinfo or generally.

Frankly, I'm scared.

I'm scared because political discussion seems increasingly dominated by true believers and by ideologues. There is no room left for subtleties. Moderates and the undecided who are too slow to choose a side are shouted down and shut up by all the noise and anger around them.

I'm scared because ideas are treated as if they were simply rhetorical ammo. No matter what the subject, from the environment to health care to Iraq, people choose their beliefs according to whether the idea advances their political allegiance. The fully equipped fanatic comes armed with ready-made opinions on every divisive subject, all 100% guaranteed to be consistent with the party line.

And I'm scared because people no longer even seem interested in convincing their opponents or in seeking consensus. There's no interest in understanding the other side, let alone in trying to address their concerns. Opponents are something to be ridiculed and insulted. Political talk consists of emotional "venting" or bonding with one's ideological compatriots by jointly attacking the mutual enemies.

Sometimes I get really cynical and start thinking that political parties are just high-toned street gangs, our national crips and bloods. The verbiage is a lot more sophisticated, what with all the college degrees, but the basic emotional dynamics don't seem all that different.

 

Bill,

Religion and politics have always struck chords of passion and intensity in the voices of those who love to discuss and debate them.

 

I think it is very sad that someone is forcing you to read the political messages on this forum. Personally, when I find something tiresome or tedious, I simply avoid it. Apparently this is not an option for you.

Now, on another note, "Bush the Budget-Buster" is NOT a worthy representative of his party. He spends like a liberal, but cuts taxes like a conservative. He recklessly racks up debts and hands the bill to our children. This is unethical, and is certainly not a good representation of what the Republican party stands for.

 

Hi Bill - It's my first foray onto the Politics forum. Yours is the best comment I've read in weeks. Thanks,
Jack

 

Now this is just too funny!

Joann calls me (of all people!) a Nazi on another thread for believing in the True Presence in the Mass but she finds the negativity on this sub-forum tiresome.

Okie-dokie!

Carl, Jimmy, others, have all the fun you can manage!

Modest GOP proposal for '08: the Zell Miller-Mary Cheney ticket (gosh, I dunno, just something about people behaving like grownups).

Modest Dem proposal for '08 (if the Rohrabacher amendment gets through): the Tom Lantos-Kwame Kilpatrick ticket (oh, just for the sheer bloody fun of it).

Modest Nader proposal for '08: why, Ralph and Susan (a bit Ptolemaic, but she's smarter than he is and isn't a refried Trot like Camejo).

 

Unlike Bill, I'm not scared at all. I see heated debates as healthy. Frankly I see a lot to be heated about. I don't think there are a lot of subtleties to be debated. Those that exist are dwarfed by the bigger issues - issues of life and death and the future of this country.

If things get serious enough, people will begin to move. What scares the hell out of me is the magnitude of inertia that affects people in this country. We have a populace absolutely lobotomized by television. When push comes to shove, most people care more about what's happening on Survivor. Oh let's watch Donald Trump. Maybe we can be as rich as he is one day. Or your 15 minutes of fame could be on reality tv arguing about meaningless petty BS. Lobotomized people are so entertained by that. Certainly something to shoot for, anyway.

Yes, a lot of the back and forth on this forum is hot air, mine included. Once upon a time the same kind of outrage coalesced into something pretty worthwhile. Some of you still remember the Sixties, don't you?

Oh, I know, just crazy liberal talk. Shut up. Be American. Support the killing of terrorists and Americans. It's peace we're fighting for, and the freedom of everyone around the world. People who all want to be just like us, and have what we have: a populace that questions nothing, does nothing, thinks about nothing, reads nothing, consumes everything, and has no idea what it is they don't know, non-thinking little consuming machines - the widgets of a healthy democracy. If we can just export that to the Middle East and around the World, spread our freedom to all the people who crave it, we'll have a whole globe of hypnotized people. What fun that will be.

Cmon, get mad, people, liberals and conservatives alike. Something good has to come out of it, Maybe somebody's mind will change along the way. It's a whole lot better than sitting around waiting for your life to be lived through the tube.

What happens when the people don't give a damn? Things like George Bush and his Administration of oil barons happens. It's like when you stop watering your lawn and all the weeds start taking over. A real democracy is a fragile thing. Outrage is perhaps a democracy that's waking up. So sorry to disturb you.

The country is divided, folks. This is what it feels like.

 

Rhetorical Fun in the Electoral Dark Night of the Soul

Oil barons? Oil barons?
What next?
Some Republican accusing Kerry of Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion?
Welcome back to the Gilded Age, folks.

Oh. Don't say "outrage" unless you're a gay man with a weak argument.
From anyone else it sounds weird (and from him it's just plain old).

 

Re: Rhetorical Fun in the Electoral Dark Night of the Soul

Now there's one from the history books I haven't heard in many years.

Actually, it's more like Champagne, Gaulism, and Retreat!

(Had to coin a word to make it work.).

 

If I recall correctly, I said that the literalnazis should believe that the eucharist and the wine are the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ. Not that other's shouldn't believe, but that they in particular should believe. I also believe that the body and blood of Jesus Christ are present, but I do not believe that the bible is the actual and literal word of God. So, if you were implicitly included in my term literalnazi, then oh well. But, don't make out like I called you personally a literalnazi in some sort of directed insult.

 

Well, by this Goeringesque turn (by which I get promoted to be the proverbial "A-1 Jew"), then, you wouldn't take it personally the next time somebody spews hatred against persons of your sexual orientation. I bet you will. And I think you should.

Mutatis very definitely mutandis, so do I.

Keep your patronizing for somebody else.