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  1. #1
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    19%

    Only 19% of PhD end up teaching full-time

    New Study: Small Percentage of Ph.D.s End up Employed as FT Profs | AdjunctNation.com
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  2. #2
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Speculation on my part, but I'd bet that the proliferation of DL doctorates contributes to that percentage.
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  3. #3
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Speculation on my part, but I'd bet that the proliferation of DL doctorates contributes to that percentage.
    Yes, it makes sense. Also, is there an assumption built in to this question? Are thy assuming that, in the student's mind, the goal is fulltime teaching ? Surely there is a sizable percentage of people earning doctorates that have no real interest or intention in teaching . Especially not full-time teaching . So I could do a study that demonstrates that a very small number of doctorates become astronauts...
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    mbwa shenzi is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Surely there is a sizable percentage of people earning doctorates that have no real interest or intention in teaching.
    I don't know about the percentage, but no, fulltime teaching was never my goal.
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    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Here is an interesting comparison that shows changes from the years 1991 to 2011:



    Full story:
    How Many Ph.D.'s Actually Get to Become College Professors? - The Atlantic

    Another interesting article:
    Should I become a professor? Success rate 3 % !
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    jhp
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    ... Most Ph.D. graduates set their sights on academia ...
    Is there a presumption that Ph.D. means the goal is full time professorship?

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    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhp View Post
    Is there a presumption that Ph.D. means the goal is full time professorship?
    Ummm. Maybe. That was my point.
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    apriltrainer is offline Registered User
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    My boyfriend is part of that 19% . His undergrad is from U Penn and his Phd is in cell biology from Rockefeller University, and he isn't teaching . Not for lack of trying though. That was his end game. He just didn't realize how many Phd's were being pumped out and how few positions are out there. He is now 37 and going back to school. This time he is going to med school.
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    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Speculation on my part, but I'd bet that the proliferation of DL doctorates contributes to that percentage.
    Oh, I'm not so sure. In 2014, a bit more than 54,000 people earned research doctorates. Of the top 50 doctorate-awarding schools, Walden is at #18 (563 awarded). That's it. No other DL school appears on it. That would indicate that it's only a small percentage of doctorates awarded overall.

    However, as I've pointed out numerous times, a DL degree is NOT a ticket to academia. Here's an interesting article that came to the same conclusion about 10 years ago:

    http://www.pilotmedia.com/adams/xPDF/DLDoctorate.pdf

    Typical citations of mistrust of DL degrees, mixed with the lack of traditional experiences traditional doctoral students enjoy on campus.

    So, DL degrees certainly contribute to this, but it's a mere ripple.

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    cookderosa is offline Resident Chef
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Yes, it makes sense. Also, is there an assumption built in to this question? Are thy assuming that, in the student's mind, the goal is fulltime teaching ? Surely there is a sizable percentage of people earning doctorates that have no real interest or intention in teaching. Especially not full-time teaching. So I could do a study that demonstrates that a very small number of doctorates become astronauts...
    Do you think that's true? Really? I wish there were data on this, because I can't wrap my head around more than a TINY percentage of people going into a PhD program without academic/teaching aspirations? What else are they going to do with a PhD in ANY liberal art? T
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  12. #11
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookderosa View Post
    Do you think that's true? Really?
    No, actually I have no idea. The only thing I can tell you is that if I were contemplating earning a PhD I would do a whole lot of research about whether it's worth it, including the prospect of landing a teaching job. It just seems like common sense. Of course I know there are people who will go the whole route and then be shocked that then can't find a university teaching job. To me that just proves that smart people can do very stupid things. So . . . you've asked a good question but I'm afraid that I don't really have an answer.

    "But should you seek to earn a PhD at all? Apart from mercenary motives, or ego gratification, or the desire to be taken more seriously by others for not altogether relevant reasons, go for a PhD only if you really want to do research, or teach in a university, or take a leading role in developing policy based on research, or some combination of these goals. The best reason of all to enroll in a doctoral program is because you want to become more intellectually engaged with and more critically sophisticated in the study of some issue or field."

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    Rich Douglas is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookderosa View Post
    Do you think that's true? Really? I wish there were data on this, because I can't wrap my head around more than a TINY percentage of people going into a PhD program without academic/teaching aspirations? What else are they going to do with a PhD in ANY liberal art? T
    What you're describing contributes to the fact that the vast majority of doctoral degrees offered by DL schools in the US are in professional subjects (engineering , psychology , business, nursing , etc.), rather than scholarly areas. A DL degree is NOT a pathway to an academic career. It can facilitate the transition from practice to scholarship for a very few, but this seems to be on a case-by-case-by-exceptional-case basis.

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    sanantone is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    What you're describing contributes to the fact that the vast majority of doctoral degrees offered by DL schools in the US are in professional subjects (engineering, psychology, business, nursing, etc.), rather than scholarly areas. A DL degree is NOT a pathway to an academic career. It can facilitate the transition from practice to scholarship for a very few, but this seems to be on a case-by-case-by-exceptional-case basis.
    This is just what I was going to say. Psychologists might go on to be practitioners. Some fields that don't seem applied on the surface, such as archaeology, history , and anthropology , might have doctoral degree holders working for museums and other non-academic research organizations. Biological anthropologists might work for a medical examiner's office. Some liberal arts PhDs will go on to federal government jobs that require or prefer a PhD. Some social scientists go on to work for think tanks such as the Rand Corporation. Physical, life science, and mathematics PhDs (because these are also liberal arts) might work in industry.
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    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Someone I know recently told me that there are a fair number of people working for the FBI/CIA who have PhDs in the Liberal Arts. Text analysis, data analysis, interpretation, etc. all that sort of stuff.
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  17. #15
    cookderosa is offline Resident Chef
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Douglas View Post
    What you're describing contributes to the fact that the vast majority of doctoral degrees offered by DL schools in the US are in professional subjects (engineering, psychology, business, nursing, etc.), rather than scholarly areas. A DL degree is NOT a pathway to an academic career. It can facilitate the transition from practice to scholarship for a very few, but this seems to be on a case-by-case-by-exceptional-case basis.
    hold up- let's keep 2 piles. Professional doctorates clearly don't have teaching as a first choice, I mean it may be in the back of their mind as an "I can always teach" thought, but a PhD is a research degree....I'm thinking besides academia, there would be consulting, speaking, but what else? Shift manager at IHOP? ;)
    Jennifer
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  18. #16
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookderosa View Post
    there would be consulting, speaking, but what else? Shift manager at IHOP? ;)
    Only if it's a DBA.
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