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  1. #1
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Shorter University

    American College of Sports Medicine

  2. #2
    graymatter is offline Registered User
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    Yeah, there are tons of openings with more sure to come. A colleague recently interviewed with them. There are some extensive posts of interest on SaveOurShorter. I spent nearly an entire afternoon reading every post earlier this week. :)

  3. #3
    peacfulchaos2001 is offline Registered User
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    Wow, there are a TON of openings on their website.
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  4. #4
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Shorter University? I wonder if there's a Longer University.
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
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    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  5. #5
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    With that many people leaving, more like "No Longer" University.
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
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  6. #6
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Bans gays employees? I honestly have not read the story yet since I have to take my beast hound bulldogs to the vets at the moment, but how is that in compliance with employment discrimination laws? It seems as of late people are just hankerin to go back to the fifties or something. WTF?

    Now, I do realize this is a religious school, but you cannot say: "well, we might hire you if you are gay, but you cannot engage in gay love making because you will be fired". In essence, this is similar to "only men need apply", looking at it from a historic perspective.

    A bunch of bullocks.

    Abner
    Last edited by Abner; 05-23-2012 at 09:57 AM.
    XVI.8: Confucius said, "There are three things of which the superior man stand in awe. He stands in awe of the ordinances of Heaven. He stands in awe of great men. He stands in awe of the words of the sages. The mean man does not know the ordinances of Heaven, and consequently does not stand in awe of them. He is disrespectful to great men. He makes sport of the words of the sages."

  7. #7
    StefanM is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abner View Post
    Bans gays employees? I honestly have not read the story yet since I have to take my beast hound bulldogs to the vets at the moment, but how is that in compliance with employment discrimination laws? It seems as of late people are juwt hankerin to go back to the fifties or something. WTF?

    Abner
    It's a religious institution, and it can make such an exclusion on religious grounds.

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  9. #8
    CalDog is offline Registered User
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    It's a religious institution, and it can make such an exclusion on religious grounds.
    Yes and no. Shorter could certainly require new staff to follow a particular code of conduct as a condition of employment.

    However, Shorter is also trying to enforce the same requirement on long-term employees with tenure. In this situation, Shorter's action could be legally shakier, depending on the conditions of tenure.

    Tenure is basically a long-term employment contract. Shorter may or may not have legal grounds for suddenly introducing a new employment condition into a contract that was agreed upon years ago.
    Last edited by CalDog; 05-23-2012 at 10:54 AM.

  10. #9
    CalDog is offline Registered User
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    Now, I do realize this is a religious school, but you cannot say: "well, we might hire you if you are gay, but you cannot engage in gay love making because you will be fired". In essence, this is similar to "only men need apply", looking at it from a historic perspective.
    Actually, Shorter's new "lifestyle statement" is even more sweeping than that. It requires employees to affirm that "I reject as acceptable all sexual activity not in agreement with the Bible, including, but not limited to, premarital sex, adultery, and homosexuality."

    So it doesn't just bar actively gay employees. It also bars heterosexual or celibate employees from holding neutral or accepting attitudes towards homosexual behavior by others.

    The "lifestyle statement" also bans drug use, as well as drinking in public (including at "restaurants, concert venues, stadiums and sports facilities"). And it also requires employees to be active members of a local church.
    Last edited by CalDog; 05-23-2012 at 11:12 AM.

  11. #10
    StefanM is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalDog View Post
    Yes and no. Shorter could certainly require new staff to follow a particular code of conduct as a condition of employment.

    However, Shorter is also trying to enforce the same requirement on long-term employees with tenure. In this situation, Shorter's action could be legally shakier, depending on the conditions of tenure.

    Tenure is basically a long-term employment contract. Shorter may or may not have legal grounds for suddenly introducing a new employment condition into a contract that was agreed upon years ago.
    Tenure at religious institutions typically does not exempt a person from religious requirements. You can bet that there is a clause in the tenure agreement that permits these kind of requirements.

    Furthermore, religiously-based requirements are generally quite difficult to overturn in court. A court runs into major 1st Amendment and case law issues if it tries to compel a religious institution to violate its religious beliefs. Usually courts won't even try, even on arguably legitimate issues.

  12. #11
    StefanM is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abner View Post
    Now, I do realize this is a religious school, but you cannot say: "well, we might hire you if you are gay, but you cannot engage in gay love making because you will be fired". In essence, this is similar to "only men need apply", looking at it from a historic perspective.
    Actually, you can require this in a religious code of conduct. You can also require that an individual hold certain religious beliefs, including the belief that homosexuality is a sin. You can require that an individual believe that women should not hold positions of responsibility in a church. Heck, you can even require that an individual believe that the universe consists of pixie dust.

    Why? Because the 1st Amendment permits a bonafide religious institution to exercise its faith without government coercion, including in employment law.

  13. #12
    peacfulchaos2001 is offline Registered User
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    Well...all that doesn't seem to be working well for them. A mass exodus is never a good sign.
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  14. #13
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by StefanM View Post
    Actually, you can require this in a religious code of conduct. You can also require that an individual hold certain religious beliefs, including the belief that homosexuality is a sin. You can require that an individual believe that women should not hold positions of responsibility in a church. Heck, you can even require that an individual believe that the universe consists of pixie dust.

    Why? Because the 1st Amendment permits a bonafide religious institution to exercise its faith without government coercion, including in employment law.
    I am just thinking out loud here. Does a religious school receive tax exemptions similar to churches? I imagine not since a school is a revenue generating business. If they do receive tax exemptions (schools), I think this is something that should not be allowed. By that, I mean, not only tax break wise, but employment law wise, etc. Same goes with preaching from the pulpit. I have been seeing a bit too much of that lately. Time to start taking away some tax advantages from churches that enjoy tax exempt status if they are going to start becoming political machines.

    Abner
    Last edited by Abner; 05-23-2012 at 12:03 PM.
    XVI.8: Confucius said, "There are three things of which the superior man stand in awe. He stands in awe of the ordinances of Heaven. He stands in awe of great men. He stands in awe of the words of the sages. The mean man does not know the ordinances of Heaven, and consequently does not stand in awe of them. He is disrespectful to great men. He makes sport of the words of the sages."

  15. #14
    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalDog View Post
    Yes and no. Shorter could certainly require new staff to follow a particular code of conduct as a condition of employment.

    However, Shorter is also trying to enforce the same requirement on long-term employees with tenure. In this situation, Shorter's action could be legally shakier, depending on the conditions of tenure.

    Tenure is basically a long-term employment contract. Shorter may or may not have legal grounds for suddenly introducing a new employment condition into a contract that was agreed upon years ago.
    I think you bring up some good points. The crux of this argument is the changing of employment conditions "after" tenured staff were hired under the previous set of employment conditions. This basically constitutes a unilatteral change of agreed upon conditions according to the company policy at the time of hire. This lessens shorts standing in court.


    Abner
    XVI.8: Confucius said, "There are three things of which the superior man stand in awe. He stands in awe of the ordinances of Heaven. He stands in awe of great men. He stands in awe of the words of the sages. The mean man does not know the ordinances of Heaven, and consequently does not stand in awe of them. He is disrespectful to great men. He makes sport of the words of the sages."

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  17. #15
    jam937 is offline Registered User
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    Tenure must be nice. Every job I have ever had they can change employment conditions at well and any time they like. I'd sure like to be able to ell my employer screw you, tough crap, doesn't matter your reasons (beliefs, financial, etc) , my conditions, benefits and pay stay! Of course they may go out of business if all my co-workers do this as well.

  18. #16
    Julie1014 is offline Registered User
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    I decided to "visit" Shorter University's web site, and found this announcement on their homepage, titled "Clearing up confusion about faculty and staff employment policies."

    Clearing up confusion about faculty and staff employment policies
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