Too Many Graduate Degrees?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by GENO, Jul 18, 2003.

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  1. GENO

    GENO New Member

    With the proliferation of online institutions granting both Master's and Doctorate degrees countless millions have now gained access to programs offering these degrees. Distance education has become a strong and growing segment of higher education, love it or not, it is here to stay. My thesis is that as more people are awarded these degrees and as they go into the labor pool are they raising the minimum qualifications of certain job requirements or are they just making themselves "over qualified"? There has to be a point of diminishing returns for holders of masters and doctorate degrees where the degree does not mean as much as it used to thus creating a "watering down" effect. As jobs become more scarce will it take a MA to be a fireman or a paramedic and a Ph.D. to be a banker or programmer?

    Any comments?
     
  2. Han

    Han New Member

    I think that your statement has great foundation. I think 20 years from now that a master’s will be like a BA is today, and a high school diploma was 20 years ago.

    The dynamic I see as interesting and would like to research is since cost of living is so high, there are many more part time and non-traditional students. I see this trend continuing at a high rate.

    When I graduated with my undergrad degree from Sac State, I needed to take a class not offered at night to get my degree, I was told Sac State did not cater to non-traditional students. I see this changing.

    The doctoral situation is a bit behind the changes being made to the undergrad world.

    I have been applying for an accredited doctoral program, but many professors have told me that if I don’t take a full time residential program, I will never be fully recognized by a high standard institution. I hope this changes with the times, it should not matter the delivery, but the quality. Times, they are a changing and I love being a part of the ride.

    I see many pioneers here, and I can only change one person at a time. I hope to see a high profile person (thought there are some), like Porter in the business area that makes a statement for DL. I have not seen that yet, but if anybody has press releases, please post them.
     
  3. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    I have to agree with you GENO. Companies, corporations and the public sector are requiring highly educated employees to perform tasks that were once deemed as elementary. Three examples I can offer the reader are:
    (1) A police officer requires a college degree for advancement. I know two seargents who wouldn't be were they were if they didn't go to college.
    (2) Bank managers (at the branch level) are expected to have an MBA. Years ago bank managers came from the ranks of clerks and tellers. A teller, for instance, could work his/her way up to manager based on years of service and a few college courses.
    (3) City Garbage collectors now must take courses (above the high school level) in Health and Safety, Hazardous Materials, First Aid and Construction Safety (these are mandatory in my city).
     
  4. Han

    Han New Member

    Roy, My father was a police officer about 25 years ago, and they paid for his degree, this was before many had education reibursement.

    Does anyody know when and the trends with education reimbursement?
     
  5. GENO

    GENO New Member

    I would wonder if corporations in the future will be re-evaluating tuition reimbursement programs. If employees are so willing to educate themselves why should companies pay for it? Many applicants will be already "educated" at no expense to the employer.
     
  6. Han

    Han New Member

    I think so Geno, my company has already revised their twice in the last 5 years. I have heard many are doing so.
     
  7. GENO

    GENO New Member

    Conversely, what happens to the "under-educated"?
     
  8. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member


    I was listening to a radio program that used the premise: All people need post-secondary education. This does not mean that it has to be college, but almost any job actually worth having requires training.



    Tom Nixon
     
  9. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    The under-educated are beginning to disappear. People of all ages and socio-economic backgrounds are going to college. Soon we may turn the tables and say "what happens to the over-educated"?
     
  10. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    Many public service organizations now give employees the opportunity to attend college. There are more police officers and firefighters today with degrees than 20 years ago. Police and Fire Departments throughout North America are now requiring additional education and training before new recruits can enter the academy.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Maybe slowly becoming that way. When I was in college in the mid to late 80's this was the topic in a Sociology class (obviously prior to on line learning). There was a concern about degree inflation. I do not know that it is that much worse now than it was 10 years or so ago.

    I know anecdotally that I have seen a proliferation of U of Phoenix graduate degrees. Many millions served.

    At some point maybe there will be a distinction made between a residential education and those seen as simply getting diploma's for advancement purposes from on-line/U of P. We call these union cards. I don't know but it is an interesting topic.

    North
     
  12. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    As ever more people acquire college degrees it should become apparent that a college degree does not much equate to knowledge or proficiency in the degree holder. More objective measures of worth than a sheepskin will be developed. Enter the NEO (New Educational Order).

    The winners in the NEO will be those who can demonstrate their worth by the new measures. The losers will be those who truly advanced themselves through college study but to join the LoD (Luftmenschen of the Degree). Perhaps the Doctorate will confer the LoHD or, Luftmenschen of the Highest Degree.

    Of course, I have once or twice been wrong.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The increasing demand for credentials was thoroughly examined in David Hapgood's Diplomaism, written in 1971. Nothing's changed.

    (I have a copy of this book, and highly recomend it to anyone interested in this field.)
     
  14. oko

    oko New Member

    Originally posted by kristie 7

    "I have been applying for an accredited doctoral program, but many professors have told me that if I don’t take a full time residential program, I will never be fully recognized by a high standard institution. I hope this changes with the times, it should not matter the delivery, but the quality. Times, they are a changing and I love being a part of the ride."


    Those professors are behind their time and should not even be in higher education today. If John Hopkins and National Defense Universities among others are not high standard institutions, I don't know what are. They both have gradutes from Walden University on their full time faculty. There are many others. Universities such as UNC, Chapel Hill and University of Illinois, Chicago, John Hopkins University all have full online programs in Public Health and other programs requiring little or no residencies. Tulane University, New Orleans have doctoral program in health system administration/policy with little or no residency. Aren't these institutions high standard? Those who talk about degrees not being accepted are themselves not technology savvy. They are afraid of technology. They should be the one heading towards the exit sign for those who are not scared of technology. I have one word for the "fully recognized statement" credited above to some professors. Garbage.

    Godwin
     
  15. alexadeparis

    alexadeparis New Member

    Regarding the willingness of employers to reimburse for college tuition, I believe that they get some sort of tax break. Every reimbursement plan I have seen seems to give $5250 as the standard amount they will reimburse per year (please correct me if I am wrong, I am looking at a small sample size). As far as that goes, I believe it is to a company's best advantage to pay for education of one of their existing employees. An employee who has had his tuition partially or fully reimbursed tends to have more loyalty to the company when he gets out of the program. He is more likely to be willing to stay at a company after obtaining a degree (usually for less money than he could get at a new place) simply because they have reimbursed for his education. At least for the first few years anyway, as some reimbursement plans have paybacks built into them if you don't stay with the company. So, I would guess that employers see it as a win win situation. Just my 2 cents.
     
  16. Han

    Han New Member

    Here, here!! Well said.

    But I do not think that the few professors I have talked to are the minority, though I have spoken to some that say exactly what you have said above. I do think that the tide is changing.
     
  17. Han

    Han New Member

    My employer's cap is $18,000, they started a cap year before last because there were some claiming discrimination if they didn't get reimbursement from USC, which is a huge hit to the pocketbook. So they revised the policy.

    But they also had in the policy that they would not reiburse any online classes, if that class was offerd locally. I fought that and won, getting the policy changed.

    Several in my TU program used to have no cap, but now they have about $5000 a year, which made several drop out mid stream in the program.
     
  18. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

     
  19. GENO

    GENO New Member

    I received $5500 yearly (maximum) for my masters degree program from my current employer with no stipulation that I stay upon graduation. My previous employer paid 100% of an employees masters degree program and allowed him to be absent from work on numerous occasions and shortly after graduation he submitted his resignation. Needless to say thay now require a signed promise that you will stay 12 months or repay all assistance.
    I also worked for a company that would only pay for job related courses NOT courses just to fulfill degree requirements.
     
  20. jelliot

    jelliot New Member

    Drucker, in Innovation and Entrepreneurship , seems to head in this direction.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2003

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