I read an interesting article in the Guardian today http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,994919,00.html Could this happen in north America, the UK or the colonies? Roy Maybery
It is always possible for the destroyers of freedom to come forward in any country, including America. They wish to save you by controling your choices, restricting them to the correct view, as established by a few. Too many freedoms sometimes leads to embarrassment, and painful mistakes, but rarely leads to a Hitler or Stalin. Books are there to be selected or rejected. None ever jump into your lap and force you to read them. Read what you will and allow others the same choice. When countries become closed and narrow they recede to mediocrity. I hope countries can avoid this plague.
Could it happen? It is happening and has been happening. This from the University of Pennsylvania gives an idea. And this. I won't comment on the groups/agencies listed but will note that they, in toto, defy any standard political pigeonholing. I'd say that you Canucks are currently worse than we Yanks on the banning front but that would be only for that First Amendment thingy. This looks like it should lead to the story, especially for Canada, but I haven't followed the links to know. Should be a good start, anyway.
Re: Re: Pakistan I am inclined to agree, especially Ontario and not only books, they dont like you having a bottle of wine at your picnic, and you have to go to communist gov't run shops to buy a bottle of cognac. Though, I remember in Britain; Spy Catcher by Peter Wright, being banned by Thatcher's Tories, Roy Maybery
Re: Re: Re: Pakistan Left and Right may be convenient for political discussion but I don't give much credence to any Left-Right political spectrum. If there must be a political spectrum then I'll take the extremes of freedom and tyranny and fill the between as appropriate. For my tastes the libertarian Nolan Chart suffices. NYC Mayor Bloomberg is catching it for supporting the police in banning the drinking of beer at Rockaway Beach while ignoring the "traditional" sipping of wine at an haute musical event in a park. Bloomberg foolishly spoke a truth in saying that the police exercise discretion in enforcing the laws of public drinking. Discretion is of course a part of all law enforcement but that reality must be denied. For those who've seen this news story, Rockaway Beach is a section of a peninsula fronting the Atlantic Ocean and backing Jamaica Bay (the water below JFK Airport). "Traditionally" of working-class, Irish-Catholic predominance and with quite a drinking tradition.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Pakistan Sounds like simple snobbery to me, and I thought this only happend in the UK! Roy Maybery
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pakistan It's being portrayed as such but Bloomberg has a point. I'm no fan of Bloomberg but he's correctly pointed out that there's yet to be a drowning at the park festival. I personally believe that as many drunks as wish to drown themselves is as many as have a right to do so but Bloomberg does have a point. Or he could be lying. Rockaway Beach is now a place of many tensions/contentions. A beach party perceived to be of one group could lead to some immediate problems between groups or to a future problem of other groups claiming contingent rights.
Re: Re: Pakistan As far as selling controversial books in Canada, the biggest impediment has been Canada customs. Customs agents, the world over, are not renowned for their sophisticated liberal outlook. In Canada they have routinely seized everything from lesbian material to anything with a title even vaguely suggesting an unofficial line relating to the events of WWII. Customs agents don't acually read the books, as that would involve an effort and basic literacy. This is in a country where the Supreme Court has determined that literary and graphic images of child sex can have artistic merit. I am certainly not a holocaust denier but it does bother me that a "liberal democracy?" such as Canada does not condone a study of the subject that comes to the wrong conclusion. The United States allows free expression and if the conclusions are bizarre, the authors themseves are freely criticized or ignored. There is no need for state intervention.
Re: Re: Re: Pakistan Quite true. Our Holocaust deniers are generally looked at as the simpletons they are. We do let them publish, but only because it's part of our national sport to let people publically embarrass themselves. Tom Nixon
Re: Re: Re: Pakistan You also have some stifling hate speech laws that come in to play. WWII? Do you know that Canada interred some 28,000 Japanese/Japanese-Canadians during WWII?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Pakistan Yes, I know about the Japanese who had their property seized and were removed from the west coast, without regard to place of birth or citizenship. Japanese Canadians were not allowed to join the Canadian army until the British started recruiting them, then it was a matter of pride that they serve in the Canadian army attached to British units In hindsight, what was done was wrong but in 1941-1942, it was not yet clear who was actually going to win the war. Other people were interned but they usually offered unappreciated opinions of the war. Mayor Houde of Montreal spent the duration locked up. We have laws on the dissemination of hate but the only conviction that I am aware of is a schoolteacher who taught his class his perspective of Jews. Our favourite bigot, Ernst Zundel, was charged with spreading false news and eventually found not guilty by the Supreme Court. This charge would normally be for a crime akin to yelling fire in a theatre. The Canadian government is presently in a quandry with Ernst. He has claimed political refugee status in Canada and because he is one of the few people they have had, who is actually a legitimate political refugee, they don't know how to handle it. I believe it was during one of Zundel's many confrontations with the justice system that the fine piece of Canadian jurisprudence arose "The truth is no defence" They spend so much time worrying about the murmurings of one idiot that they are willing to pervert the whole justice system to expeditiously deal with him. Political correctness taken to absurdity.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pakistan Okay. "Internment" is a pet topic so I snuck that in. I suspect that you are in a minority of people who know of that. But there's more to it than you've indicated as the story of the Arandora Star should indicate. And there were people interred during WWI as well. Back in the States, some 15-16 thousand Japanese were interred along with a similar number of Europeans. One hundred some odd thousand Japanese-Americans were also in the, believe it or not, voluntary Relocation camps which were nothing like the internment camps. Now that the U.S. is again detaining people, this becomes an important topic and one that is greatly misunderstood. End of sermon. I've heard of Zundel but know nothing of that story. In the States they would monitor the guy until they could catch him (induce him) in some actual violation of the law. He'd likely just dry up and blow away as others of his ilk have done.
