As far as I can remember Dr. Bear's book has always had a section on titles including titles of nobility. I decided to take a look into this realm on the Internet and all I can say at this point it that it is very confusing for the unititiated. I would put it at a level of confusion much higher than getting a grip on understanding accreditation in all of its forms. Most of the titles sources I found had some dubious aspect about them. Their web sites reminded me a lot of the dubious degree web sites out there and a few of them offered academic titles too. I decided to lose a bit of money and purchase a spiralbound book offered by one of the firms I found. Titled, "Instant Aristrocracy." Although some of the info provided may have some value it also tried to sell their own wares and when looking up many of the titles offered where addresses were found I also found websites that considered many of these honorific awards 'less than wonderful.' Many of the chivalric chat rooms also appear to have a large amount of discussion over what is considered a valid title. Overall, I think the problem is similar to diploma mills exploiting the laws of some countries to offer academic degrees of questionable value -- the same applies in regard to nobility titles. Without spending a huge amount of time wading through it all I can at this time conclude that John was wise in cutting back on this section of his book. Even more so than with academic degrees you must apply the principle of Caveat Emptor. At some point when I have had a chance to digest much of the information I may make a more detailed report and was wondering if any of the readers here have delved into this realm and could share any thoughts. John
Deposed royalty and their offspring sell worthless titles having no more legality than if I granted them. A king without a country is simply a citizen or a displaced person. In England people create Lord of the Manor titles by copywriting them and selling them. One born every minute. One of Zsa Zsa Gabor's husbands paid to be adopted in adulthood by a German princess. As German princes aren't recognized in German law, I am not sure what he is, certainly not a German prince. A title of Scottish baron can be legally purchased. The baronry went with the real estate. Until recently, people buying this title bought a tiny remnant of the original real estate but now, I believe that is not necessary. Scottish baron is an empty title - no rights or priveleges. English Lord of the Manor titles are similar to Scottish baronries but most sold tend to be bogus. Lord of the Manor was the lowest feudal title.
Titles and the US Constitution The US Constitution has something to say about titles in Article 1 Section 9: "No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept any present, Emoulument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State." Section 10 adds that no state shall "grant any Title of Nobility." So I guess if you have a federal job, you should avoid titles.
A few Canadians receive titles and knighthoods, usually when the Liberal Party is not in power. The last prime minister to receive a title was Viscount Richard Bedford Bennett of Mickleham and of Calgary and Hopewell in 1941 six years after leaving office. Conrad Black, a Canadian businessman resident in England, who owns a newspaper like the Times? was offered a life peerage. As he had been highly critical of our less than useless prime minister, the Canadian government intervened and asked the British government to back off. Black renounced his Canadian citzenship and later took the honour. There is a Baron of New York but the treasonous rebels chased out the family, the Johnsons, in the 1780s.
Several comments -- On the U.S. Constitution -- a wonderful document: My read of the post is that if you are in federal office you should not accept any titles. However, many American notables receive knighthoods from the Queen of England after they are out of office. Pres. Reagan and Casper Wienberger come to mind. There are also a lot of people who receive papal knighthoods and consider it quite an honor. I agree that most titles carry no rights and privleges. That does not seem to prevent folks from wanting them. Otherwise there would not be a market in legitimate and illegitmate titles. Many Americans may consider a title vain but I wonder about the European mind? Others may consider it an honor and maybe others do it just to be a part of history (speaking of legit titles here). Finally, we also get people on this board who want to get a doctorate just to be called Dr. with no real interest in really doing the learning that accompanies earning one. Consequently, I think that for those pursuing a title over the Internet they have a hard time discerning legitimate titles and can easily be tripped up. up. John
Answers to a bunch of questions http://www.baronage.co.uk/2001/faqs-01.html note that it says that 99 % of titles offered on the internet are bogus.
What did he do to deserve this "honour" other than to be a complete know it all, that apparently knew even less about the newspaper business in Canada than Izzy Asper and his family? It's good to be rid of Black and his arrogant wife--it will be even better to see da Little Guy from Shawinigan off into retirement, sooner, rather than later.
As well as Colin Powell, Norman Schwarzkopf (after the First Gulf War), and (okay, he's Irish) Bob Geldof (after Live Aid). If memory serves, non-British subjects are granted honorary knighthoods and use the letters of the award (KBE, KVO, etc) and not the title "Sir."
As I understand it the 'real' Lord of the Manor titles are for sale and either abandoned or sold by families with other titles. Most of the time they no longer contain the Manor ****AND**** as I understand it there is some debate about the use of the title *Lord*. I get the impression that those with more pedigree or history to their titles consider these a rather pretentious joke. Nonetheless their are societies "Landed Gentry"(??) where these folks get together and presumably sip port and call one another 'Lord or Lady'. It makes interesting & humorous reading. I remember Bear's pages. There are some odd web pages and it is hard to figure out who is selling legit titles. But frankly, do you really want to buy some defunt Italian or Scittishh title and run around calling yoru self 'Lord'. Well..............never mind we in the US have folks buying PhD's from all sorts of schools in order to call themselves "Dr." Personally, give me a ligit earned (& accredited) PhD any day over a bought and paid for 'Lordship'. Along those lines there are also web sites with folks who claim to have earned various knighthoods or memberships in chivalrous orders (many of which either sound like orders with more history or are bogus). North
I have an old dusty copy of 'Whitaker's Almanac" on my shelf, and it has a whole section on British aristocratic titles and honours. The prototypical aristocrats are the Peerage. But this is more complicated than it seems. There are actually five separate peerages: those of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom. The peerage of Great Britain began in 1707 when an act of union combined the kingdoms of England and Scotland. Peerages created prior to this date remained either English or Scottish, and new peerages created subsequently were those of Great Britain. Irish peerages weren't included. Then in 1801 another act of union combine Ireland into the mix, and a United Kingdom peerage was created. Preexisting Irish, English, Scottish or British peerages remained those things, but ones created subsequent to 1801 were United Kingdom peerages. Until Tony Blair abolished it, members of the English, Scottish, Great Britain and United Kingdom peerages, who were 21 years of age and of British nationality, had right to a seat in the House of Lords. Irish peers did not have seats in Lords, but unlike the other peers could run for seats in Commons. (I don't know if this option is available to all peers now.) Most hereditary peerages pass to the oldest male heir, but some "ancient" ones (mostly Scottish I think) pass to the oldest heir of either sex, and several of these are held by women. (But it was only in 1963 that women peers were allowed to sit in Lords.) Traditionally Archbishops and (some) Bishops of the C of E have been given seats in the House of Lords. Plus, since 1876, there have been non-hereditary "Life Peers". At first these were confined to eminent jurists, the "Law Lords". Since there were traditional rights of appeal to he House of Lords, it was felt that this function needed to be professionalized. In 1958 non-hereditary life peerages began to be granted like honorary degrees to "men and women of distinction", giving them (but not their descendents) seats in Lords. A few years ago Tony Blair restricted the House of Lords to these political appointees, and excluded the Lords from the House of Lords. (How a leader of the House of Commons could dictate the composition of the House of Lords is one of those mysteries of British politics that's beyond the comprehension of a mere American. To me it's like the Speaker of the House of Representatives deciding to throw half the senators out of the US Senate.) Besides there being five different hereditary peerages, it seems that a single individual can simultaneously hold different titles in the same or different peerages. For example, as of 1990, it seems that an individual named Robert Alexander Lindsay was simultaneously the 29th Scottish Earl of Crawford, the 12th Scottish Earl of Balcarres the 5th UK Baron of Wigan and a life peer, Baron Balniel. Dermot Richard Claud Chichester was the 7th Irish Marquess of Donegall, 7th British Baron Fisherwick and 6th British Baron Templemore. Despite otherwise being a Marquess, when he sat in the House of Lords he was only a Baron. Jestyn Reginald Austen Plantagenet Philipps (you have just got to love those English aristocratic names) was 2'd English Viscount St. Davids, 19th English Baron Strange of Knokin and the 7th English Baron Hungerford and De Moleyns. As of August 31, 1989, there were 1184 people eligible for seats in the House of Lords: 26 Archbishops and Bishops 763 "Peers by Succession" (those who inherited a title, of these 20 were women) 21 "Hereditary Peers of First Creation" (hereditary peerages in which the current incumbent is the first to hold it) 21 "Life Peers under the Appellate Jurisdiction Act of 1876." 353 "Life Peers under the Life Peerages Act of 1958." (45 were women.) These are all "substantive titles". There are also hundreds of "courtesy titles". These are titles given to heirs in waiting for higher titles. For example, Viscount Althorp is heir to the Earldom of Spencer. He doesn't (or didn't) get a seat in the House of Lords, but he got a courtesy title while he waited for his father to die. Then, besides the peerage, there are the orders of chivalry. Knights aren't just knights, they come in all kinds of different orders. There's the Most Noble Order of the Garter, the Most Ancient and Noble Order of the Thistle, the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, the Most Distinguished Order of St. Michael and St. George etc. It's interesting that British India had its own orders of knighthood, that apparently still have some surviving members, though there have been no new conferments since 1947: The Most Exalted Order of the Star of India and The Most Eminent Order of the Indian Empire. Besides there being different orders of knighthood with all their subtle gradations of status, there are different ranks of higher and more exalted knights within the orders: Knights Grand Cross, Knights Grand Commanders, Knights Commanders etc. And there are "loner" knights that aren't members of any larger order of chivalry. These are Knights Bachelor, who are the survival of the ancient state orders of knighthood. They were recorded in a Register since the 17th century. Later a Society of Knights formed and by Royal command this was changed to The Imperial Society of Knights Bachelor. So it's kind of as if they were in an order, except that they aren't. There are also Baronets, but that's something else. Female knights are Dames, and these are admitted to some of the orders. There are Dames Grand Cross, Dames Commanders etc. There's lots more as well, including a whole collection of orders and honours that don't confer knighthoods, but are very prestigious (O.M., M.B.E. etc.) and orders of gallantry like the Victoria Cross. I didn't see anything resembling the "aristocratic titles" that one so often finds for sale. I really doubt that any holders of the sorts of titles I outlined above would be very comfortable associating with mail-order aristocrats. At least not as fellow aristocrats.
Here is something near and dear to the hearts of degreeinfo readers. An organization that not only sells titles but also offers non accredited and accredited US and European degrees and "professorships" and honorary degrees in a range of 5K - 50K (British Pounds). http://www.sovereignclassics.com/ Click on their "Academic Services" link. You will find the bottom section of their online evaluation form of interest. They provide a discussion on accreditation, acceptable degrees, and more of interest. John
I checked out the section on 2nd citizenships and passports. There are multiple country choices at different prices. I was intrigued by the question in the application, "How much money do you want to spend?" The correct question should be, "How much money have you got."
Here is another title outfit offering university degrees from Trinity College & University (Spain). I especially like the list of notable people who never finished college, which includes: Alexander the Great Aristotle (We must realize that the university system did not exist in antiquity) and then...... Al Capone See: http://www.immigration-world.com/interest/degreebymail-eng.shtml Oh, I almost forgot -- you can also get your UFO Abduction Insurance here and get paid $10 mil. if you can prove it. http://www.immigration-world.com/interest/ufo-eng.shtml LOL! John
Sovereign Classics is at 401 Langham House 302 Regent St. London, W1B 3HH When I type that address into Google, this: --------------------------------------------------- "Would you like to join our club and have the opportunity to buy our exclusive hardcore videos? If so you have three choices, you can either visit www.omarsclub.com, email your name, address and date of birth to [email protected] or post your details to: Big Willy Productions 401 Langham House 302 Regent Street London, W1B 3HH" --------------------------------------------------- Big Willy University?
