Your thoughts on "Whites Only" prom in GA?

In case you hadn't seen the news in the last few days, take a look at this article:

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/5781520.htm

How do you guys feel about this?

Although it's a startling reminder of the nasty racial history of the U.S., I personally think this kind of thing would occur more often if whites didn't get so much grief over such actions. It'd probably be more realistic to simply embrace (not promote) separate, but equal where it exists. Just like we're expected to embrace integration where it exists

Not that most whites are racist, not at all. Quite the opposite probably. It's just that whites would probably be much more comfortable if they didn't have to be around blacks at school, work and/or play. It's human nature, isn't it? That's probably why socializing between whites and blacks generally ends at the front door to the house.

I wonder if the black students even want to have a mixed prom. Really, why would they?

Of course, blacks are allowed to have Black this and Black that. None of it is "blacks only" but surely many non-racist whites take it that way. Those who are slightly more opinionated, yet still non-racist, probably believe whites should be allowed to have "WET" or "Ms. White America" contests again. Why not? They are only seeking a certain comfort level. I bet not many whites will break their necks trying to enter a HBCU or other "black event or organization--and why should they?

I don't know for sure. These are just my thoughts. Surely I'm not the only one thinking them. What are yours.

 

Are you serious?? Not this not what all whites think, and the generalization is disgusting. The entire posting was racist, but I the above quote was particularly ridiculous.

I did live in the south for a few years, and do know that many people there do not realize that what they are saying is not human nature, but racist.

 

Okay. What is your opinion of the prom issue?

 

I find this truly sickening. I believe that acceptance of a segregated prom is racism of a particularly evil form.

 

By the way,

I'm teaching "To Kill A Mockingbird" at the secondary school level currently and I found this on drudge and read it to my classes. Overall, here was their response to my questions:

1.) When i asked why racism like this still occurs today, the majority of the highschoolers that I asked said it is perpetuated in the family. they didn't believe this "tendency" was innate.

2.) when I asked if racism among young people like this can "ever be stopped" they all answered "no." Reason being that family and culture perpetuate it and it can never be made illegal.

3.) When I asked if they look down on others who are racist, even though their culture is, and expect them to know better, they all said "yes."

4.) When I asked if individuals can possibly believe anything different from their culture, they mostly said "no."

Our younger people, at least in Bakersfield, CA, believe racism is perpetuated through genaeological ties, and that people should be held responsible for its immoral nature, but lack the capability to choose a point of view not advocated by their culture.

This seems typical, to me, of our disjointed young thinkers today.

Chris

 

I hear you. But what would you suggest as an alternative in this situation? When given the choice, the white students made their preference clear.

Would you force everyone to go to one prom?
Would you cancel the prom altogether?

I just don't know that there is a feasible alternative. Or is there? I'm guessing the white students who oppose the "whites only" prom will either not go to any prom or will go to the "black" prom where they could be rejected as "payback". I would also guess the black students would be far too indignant to bother with gate crashing" the white prom.

It's sticky.

Come on guys! What do you think?

 

Re: Re: Your thoughts on "Whites Only" prom in GA?

You're right. I should have said "American Nature" instead of human nature. Not all peoples are afflicted to the level we are.

 

Sinced I think this is obvious I will ask it a different way. Let's say Bill Gates says he does not want blacks as employees. Do we force him to have all races in his company.... yes.

I think Christopher Green is right, it does go from generation to generation, but I do think it will stop in time, when things like a "white only" prom is not a topic of dicussion, nor defended by anyone.

 

Exactly how would you go about that?? Sure, the government and a few other businesses might take the moral high ground and not do business with Microsoft. But if he owns the company and made a conscious decision not to employ blacks, what could anyone do about it other than not by his products?

 

I am not a lawyer, but know of several ways:

*A Class action lawsuit

*Have the government fine the company

Since the majority is moving away from being racist, and once it is proven that a company is doing so, a trail by jury, or by a judge will give judgement for the employees / government.

There are many cases out there that have done so... similar to religion. I thought this was common knowledge.... No one can discriminate race, religion, creed, color or sexual orientation... (though the sexual oritentation has come into doubt with recent rulings).

 

My understanding is that separate but equal was struck down as racist at the school level. I think it is also racist at the prom level.

 

Why have a prom at all?

 

That's not really true. "Protected classes" as they are called, are a much murkier issue. There are certain classes protected at the federal level. (This does not include sexual orientation, by the way.) Then there are some that are protected in some states. And the level of protect varies. And sometimes only applies to one part of a class. For example, no one under 40 can claim age discrimination under federal law.

Anyway, here's an interesting chart from Minnesota describing who is protected in a variety of situations:

http://www.humanrights.state.mn.us/rights_prochart.html

And then it depends on the situation. Sex is a protected class at the federal level. Yet Augusta Golf Club still refuses to have female members. And this is legal. And it probably should be.

Don't get me wrong. I think this segregated prom business is deplorable. However, it is my understanding that this "prom" was a private party on private property. Do we really want the government to have the right to come into our homes to insure that our dinner party has a sufficient representation from each protected class? I don't think so.

These people in Georgia just need to pull their heads out of their asses and join the 21st Century.

 

Private party off school property, fine. Invite the Klan and have a grand old time.

School involvement is a no-no.

 

Message to Georgia:


THE CIVIL WAR IS OVER. YOU LOST.

If you didn't catch the newspaper articles one hudred and thirty eight years ago, it's been extensivly written about in books. Oh, sorry, just watch the Ken Burn's film "The Civil War." PBS runs it about twice a year.

 

Isn't that a contradiction?

I can't speak for Georgia, but things are somewhat different here in California.

Races mix (sort of) freely. I see racially mixed social groups all the time.

There are lots of variables that go into choosing friends. But if you correct for the variables and look at groups of people with similar language, class, education and personal interests, I think that you often see racially mixed groups of friends. At least around here.

There's a growing number of inter-racial marriages too.

 

I like the questions you asked your class, Chris. Here's my answers to them:

I do think that it's innate, but on a more abstract level than race.

People tend to divide into groups and define themselves by "us-them" distinctions. I suspect that kind of behavior is innate and biological. Strangers are more apt to be included in "us" the more similar they are, and more apt to be included in "them" the more different. Race, to the extent that it presents a big obvious visible difference, tends to push people into being "them".

But phenotypical "race" is only one variable at work here. There are language, politics, religion, class, occupation, education, personal interests, sports loyalties, musical tastes and countless more.

That suggests that the way to combat racism might be to stress and highlight those things that we have in common, rather than constantly stressing our differences.

I'm inclined to think that it's here to stay. But it can be reduced from America's national obsession to something a lot more trivial. People with different hair color don't divide up into sides. It's no big deal. But it would be if every time you turned on your TV or picked up your newspaper, somebody was using hair color to make politically divisive points.

I'm inclined to agree.

I disagree. Of course we can believe things that aren't normative in our culture. Almost everyone does in some way.

But I wonder if we learn racism from our culture in that sense. Kids aren't taught in any conventional way that blacks are to be shunned. Something more fundamental is at work. I think that we are sensitized to racism by having certain kinds of differences constantly highlighted and accentuated, while other differences are dismissed as trivial. To the extent that we see others as being different, we see them as "them", as opposed to "us".

This seems to suggest that the left's efforts to combat racism by keeping everyone constantly thinking about it may be having the unintended effect of keeping it alive.

Compare that with Colin Powell. He's black and he's "us". (Literally, since he represents the US abroad.) The Secretary of State gives us so many other reasons to think about him and his ideas that it's almost irrelevant where his ancestors happened to come from. His race is there, but the emphasis isn't on it. It isn't the thing that defines him.

 

I think there's a definite "don't look at the elephant" dynamic to the way we liberals tend to handle racism, but I think there is also a certain amount of willful ignorance in the way conservatives tend to handle racism. Ideally we would all make a conscious effort to stamp out racism, but in a sane, practical, and politically independent way. We should always ask "What specific result are we looking for?," and act accordingly.

Colin Powell is a great example of a man who has transcended racial identity; you know how I felt about Belafonte's ridiculous "house slave" comment. Joe Lieberman, if I may be forgiven for obsessively bringing up the Democratic primaries, is another--he polls at 27% among Democratic African-Americans, far above all other candidates, including Al Sharpton (17%) and Carol Mosley Braun (14%).

As far as the whites-only prom in Georgia goes, I think we should remember that we're talking about one rural high school, not a statewide (much less regional) phenomenon. The vast--and I mean vast--majority of Southern proms have been integrated for decades. Yeah, this story really bothered me when I first read it, but on further reflection I think this was probably the work of a few mischievous teenagers and their dinosaur parents.

To answer 4Q's comment, no, I am not remotely interested in living in a segregated world. I had the good fortune as a homeschooler to spend my formative years socializing at an urban Y with a roughly 50:50 racial mix (my best childhood friend was biracial), and today I live in a city that is predominantly African-American. I wouldn't be caught dead at any exclusive "whites-only" function.


Cheers,

 

Okay guys, I think it's time I came clean....

The original post was intended to generate a discussion about how to deal with these situations when they arise, especially when apparently no laws or statutes are being violated.

I purposely presented the topic with a devil's advocate tone. I know some of you at least suspected that. Or at least I hope you did. I also guessed most would assume I was white or at least not black.

It's just that it's difficult to get an open debate on race issues when they arise. People either get too emotional and accusatory or feel stifled, ashamed, or afraid to express how they really feel.
I want to know people's real, personal opinions, not the PC ones. So I thought I'd be the one with the "unpopular view" to set the tone. I've posted this exact same topic on other boards, with results ranging from being labeled a racist to being barred from that board. All with very little meaningful exploration of the issue at hand.

But not here on this board. Only one person called me a racist. And almost every response was unemotional and made decent points on either side. Thanks mods, for not locking this post.

Really guys, I can honestly say there's no chip on my shoulder. If you met me, no doubt you'd soon reach that conclusion. After spending nearly 12 years in Europe, America's racial obscessions are clearly ridiculous and tiresome.

However, deep down I feel there is some truth in the "comfort" theory, although I try to keep it from influencing how I treat others. And if my theory is valid, it's a huge burden to make so many feel comfortable, because their discomfort then makes me uncomfortable and so on. For me , this thread has highlighted the fine line between trying to respect someone's comfort zone and giving in to blatant racism.

Thanks guys.

4Q out.

 

I really have a problem with the "whites only" prom. My kids are mixed (half-Filipino and half Sicilian) so would they be allowed to attend? While private party or not, it sets a disturbing trend and a slippery slope which our country has worked hard to erase.

While I live in California, I grew up in Brooklyn, New York which was pretty reasonable about race, and then at 16 I moved to a small town in Indiana, where I really learned what prejudice is all about. Not that everyone there was or is, but I constantly heard racial epithets, and suffered myself because I was different. I immediately joined the Navy, which probably has one of the best programs on equality I have seen. There people were judged on their character and quality of work, not the color of their skin. I also remember how it felt to see signs in certain states like "Dogs and sailors keep off the grass". I am sure this is pretty minor compared to what others have suffered.

Believe me, I am not into political correctness by any stretch, but this function, sanctioned or not shows that our country still need to continue working to resolve these issues. And just so people don't think I am some wildeyed liberal, all of my kids except the 4 year old voted Republican in the last election.

(sigh) Dismounting from the soapbox.