Have the French Forgotten Normandy?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Guest, Mar 1, 2003.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Have the French forgotten about the little distance learning gig America did in '44, eventually expelling the Nazi's from their soil?
    Where are friends when you need them?
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Have the Americans forgotten the Revolutionary War?

    Have the Americans forgotten their commitments to NATO?

    Have the Americans forgotten their commitments to the UN?

    Better still: Have the Saudis forgotten the Gulf War?

    I know this, the rest of the world hasn't forgotten Panama, Grenada, Somalia, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Mexico, Cuba, or any number of other places we've invaded. (Rightly or wrongly, I'm not saying. But it's true.)

    Oh, and then there's Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

    What about our backing of corrupt and brutal regimes that met our needs? The Phillipines, Panama, Cuba, El Salvador, Chile, Argentina, Iraq, South Korea, and many, many more.

    Then there's our interfering with other countries' internal affairs. Allende was murdered, attempts on Castro's life, spying on friends and foes alike.

    How about Palestine? Much of the world is none too impressed with out backing of Israel beyond what is perceived to be fair, ignoring their excesses against the Palestinians.

    Hey, I think the U.S. is one of the good guys. But that image is a complicated one, and one we make even more so with a confused and aggressive foreign policy. Americans are not served well by a government that ignores the needs and the viewpoints of the rest of the world.

    Now, let's go kick his ass quickly, 'cause we're gonna do it anyway, no matter what. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Exactly!
     
  4. timothyrph

    timothyrph New Member

    Rich is correct in pointing out we have a perception problem. Money from our hard work goes to buy medicine, and food to all of the countries you mentioned. We also give a lot of money. That includes Palestine. Afghanistan backed a terrorist organization that killed over 3000 Americans, we dropped food after our invasion. We dropped medicine. They flew planes into our buildings, we dropped medicine from.

    In addition, countries who are invaded and we help liberate, tend to hate us. We gave military aid to Afghanistan when they were invaded by Russia. They then backed Bin Laden. Does that make us wrong? Should we have not helped them obtain freedom?

    We can't win the opinion of the world. We have spent over 200 years trying. All we can do is what is right in the security of the United States and the eyes of God. The world will always hate us because we are a Christian Nation. We are not just one of the good guys, we are the good guys. What would be the shape of the world without us? If you think of that, there can only be one reply.
    God Bless America.
     
  5. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    My own personal (albeit stereotypical and simplistic) reading on the French is that they are shaped by the educations that they receive.

    They are taught a version of history in which the Frankish empire was the foundation of European civilization, Paris its intellectual and artistic capital, where the French revolution is clearly the pivotal event of modernity and where the French language and culture are the highest development of human civilization. To a Frenchman, France is Europe. France is Europe's heart and soul, with the rest of the peripheral countries circled around the "middle kingdom". France exists to give direction.

    In other words, the French are very much like the Americans in many ways. They have visions of their own inherent superiority and a sense of having a unique national destiny. That's why they often seem to be on a collision course with us.

    And that's why the French can become particularly prickly when others remind them of France's debts.

    The French see their natural place, the natural Glory of France, usurped by "those damn Anglo-Saxons". The Anglophones have seized what rightfully belongs to France: the leadership of the West.

    That's particularly true of the largest, crudest and least cultured of the unsophisticated bunch, the cowboy nation America. George Bush, with his Texas-style and his total lack of rhetorical smoothness, just serves to illustrate the caricature. A nation of uneducated fundie yahoos with atom bombs.

    I think that this explain's some of Britain's behavior as well. Part of the EU's purpose in French eyes is to reduce the influence of the Anglophones. So while the UK may be admitted (France vetoed Britain's first application to the Common Market), it will be restricted to the periphery of power.

    The British see all that, so they hedge their bets. If they are going to always be a distant province within Europe, and if Europe's "ever greater union" simply means foreign rule to them, they can place additional emphasis on their links to NATO and to the rest of the English speaking world. So the British are reflexive Atlanticists, which angers the Gaullists no end. The French see it as little better than treason.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If America ignores the needs/viewpoints of the rest of the world, then why haven't we already gone into Iraq? Why spend several months seeking UN approval? Why, after it is evident that Saddam is not going to adhere to the UN mandate, is America still considering the viewpoints of the "rest of the world?"

    Why not just drop nuclear warheads on Iraq--if that is, America is not concerned about the viewpoints of the rest fo the world?
     
  7. dlkereluk

    dlkereluk New Member

    Probably because the people in Shrub's cabinet with investments in the petroleum and defense industries are benefiting from the uncertainty caused by their dimwitted leader...
     
  8. Charles

    Charles New Member

    Leader of the Free World

    No matter what you call him, the President of the United States is the leader of the Free World.

    :D :D :D :D :D
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The delay is not due to diplomacy. It is due to logistics. And it is logistics that make this war inevitable. For the momentum of all that materiel and weaponry will not be denied.

    The U.S. does not use nuclear weapons for it fears the same will one day be used on it.

    Yes, it is clear Saddam will not adhere to the UN mandates. At least, not as the US defines them. But is that a reason to go to war? Can both Saddam and war against Iraq both be wrong? Many people think so. Being against war is not the same as being for Saddam.

    Stop trying to kill Americans and Iraqis. Stop trying to start WWIII. Yes, Saddam is a war criminal, a tyrant, a scourge to his own people. He is also one more despot the U.S. has financed.
     
  10. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Or prevent????
     
  11. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member


    "Friends don't let friends drive drunk." We hopefully don't let them do stupid things, either. I hope and pray that your friends love and respect you enough to tell you when you're making poor choices. Otherwise, you might consider investing in some new friends.

    The idea that France should always do whatever we want is implausible (at best). Many reasonable people believe that committing a "first strike" against Iraq is unwarranted. It doesn't make them bad people.



    Tom Nixon
     
  12. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Yes. I was an active participant in Gulf War I, since my National Guard unit was activated and deployed for the duration (I did 3 years active Army, 6 years NG).

    After the war was over, my unit (along with many others) was stationed at King Khalid Military City (KKMC), a Saudi military base, while we waited for our turn to go home.

    Very nearby, there was a French Army unit, I believe the 6th Light Infantry Division. In addition to playing them in volleyball, I had the chance to chat with them at length. To a man, they all believed that they (French) could have won WWII without our (United States) help. When I pointed out the fact that France ceased to exist during the Nazi occupation, I got blank stares and outrageous excuses in return.

    France is irrelevant. The United States doesn't need anyones approval (especially the UN) to defend itself.
     
  13. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Re: Have the French Forgotten Normandy?

    Even Canada lost 40,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen fighting the Nazi's. I wonder if France even lost that many?
     
  14. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    The French are an arrogant bunch of "world leader wannabees" that have always had a dislike of American Foreign Policy. I have to agree with many of the other comments on this thread. France would not exist today if it wasn't for the U.S. Canada and the UK.
    Let them eat cake............or as the late Pierre Trudea used to say to his fellow countrymen "mangé la merde".
    :D
     
  15. Ike

    Ike New Member

    Russell,
    As a layman, I have nothing against fighting a justified war even if it leads to collateral losses (of innocent lives) but as an ordained Christian minister, I am surprised that you are a warmonger. Your views about wars do not in any way represent the teachings of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
     
  16. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member


    No but they have a nice Old Testament ring to them.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ike,

    If you read this thread in its entirety you will find that I am not a warmonger. The post you quoted was in response to the assertion that "American's are not served well by a government that ignores the needs and viewpoints of the rest of the world."

    To this assertion, I responded that if America was not concerned about the viewpoint of the rest of the world (meaning a uni-lateral approach), then why not just drop a nuclear bomb on Iraq, i.e., forget what anyone thinks--just destroy the enemy. But, since America is concerned about the viewpoint of others, this allegorical bomb has not been dropped. And because it hasn't been dropped, it is clear to me that America is concerned about, not only the viewpoint of the rest of the world, but also the innocent Iraqi civilians who will inevitably suffer if a conflict occurs.

    It is amazing that you would assume to know my "views about wars" from one allegorical statement. I did not say "Let's drop a nuclear bomb on Iraq," or "America should do this." My assertion was that if the US did not care about the viewpoint of others there are many who would indeed take this approach.
     
  18. Ike

    Ike New Member

    Thanks for responding and correcting my wrong impression. I am happy that the government is listening to the world. I hope that the objective (whatever it is) will be achieved without the loss of inocent souls, Iraqis and Americans alike.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A commendable objective, indeed!
     
  20. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Re: Re: Have the French Forgotten Normandy?

    I can't say that I'm a big fan of the current Canadian government, but Canada was one of our most important allies in WWII, and they lost many soldiers at Normandy.


    Bruce
     

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