Museum in Bristol devoted to the British Empire opens; story form New York Times, Jan 4, 2003: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/04/arts/design/04EMPI.html Neglected topic deserves more attention.... --Orson
Looks like the museum "Shows-off" brits autocracies across the world. Most of the places like in Africa (extensive slave trade),China (opium smuggling), India - especially the burning kashmir issue.. Brits have done more harm to the world than anything to feel proud of themselves. . The museum seems to be an imperial show-off. The new-Brit generation does not know their past dark history !
My recollection of history is that the British were among the first to eliminate the slave trade and maintained a large naval presence on the coast of Africa to enforce an embargo. At the time opium was legal everywhere and its importation into China was a trade issue. Incidently the opium imported into China was grown in India. Kashmir - you have to look at the Indian government as to why it chooses to rule a people without allowing their right of self determination. A common perception of many people living in former British colonies is that Britain stole their wealth. Other than pre 1832 Caribbean colonies and pre-mutiny India commercial interests were not significant. Being the foremost world power was the dominating factor. I would think that there would be very few Brits, even with full knowledge of history, who would regard their history as having a dark past. Judging history by todays morality is wrong and dwelling on it is simply not productive
Hey Dennis, I think one of ur reply is based on Pakiatani biased CNN/BBC reports .... Please read the reality below. this the truth.. Kashmir was always an integral part of India. In the past Hindu kings ruled Kashmir for 100's of years before Brits took over. During the formation and integration of India .. the Hindu king who was ruling Kashmir (under brits) opted to join India not Pak. Most of the muslims in Kashmir have been living there for ever. The right of self determination does not come into picture as the people who are demanding it are Pak infiltrated Militants/terrrorists. Most of the muslims who lived in Kashmir a decade back have migrated to other parts of India. I have seen a large number of them migrating while i was in South India. None of them want Kashmir to be a part of a country ruled by a dictator. ISI re-organising militant organisations: Report ISI re-organising militant organisations: Report PTI[ SUNDAY, JANUARY 05, 2003 01:13:56 PM ] NEW DELHI: In a two-pronged change of strategy, the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) has shifted several militant training camps from Pak-occupied-Kashmir (PoK) to Pakistani territory, and is re-organising the command structure of militant organisations it uses for terrorist strikes in India. Under pressure to stop cross-border terrorism into India, ISI has now moved several of the training camps from PoK since these had come to the notice of the international community. But some of the camps have been retained for use by foreign mercenaries as Islamabad uses the excuse that it has no control over them, informed sources said here. Interrogation of a number of Pakistani militants captured by the Indian authorities, reveals that about 2300 militants from five camps in Muzaffarabad areas have just been moved to two camps at Taxila and Haripur in Islamabad-Peshawar area. These tactical changes have been accompanied by moves to restructure the United Jehad Council (UJC), an umberella group of 13 militant outfits, to enable ISI to have a tighter control over its running. Smaller outfits which have been irritants for ISI are being merged which will reduce the number of their representation in UJC from 13 to five. Although reducing the size of UJC had started, the ISI was unlikely to change its supremo Syed Salahuddin, according to an interrogation report of a militant which has been submitted to the government, the sources said. The ISI has asked Al-Barq, Teherek-e-Jehad, Islamic Front, 313 brigade and the Kashmiri component of Harkat-ul-Mujahideen to merge and form Kashmir Liberation Organisation. However, there were differences on the name between Kashmiri militant leaders and ISI and the new name suggested by Kashmiris was Kashmir Freedom Force which would be led by Farooq Qureshi of Al Barq, the report said. Similarly Muslim Janbaz Force, Al Jehad force, Al Fateh force, Hizbullah and Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen were being merged to form Kashmir resistance Force and would be led by Ghulam Rasool Shah alias General Abdullah, it said. Interestingly Tehrek-ul-Mujahideen, which did not agree to merge as per the wishes of ISI, has been asked to fend for itself and it is reported that the outfit was getting close to Lashker-e-Taiba for training and Ahl-e-Hadis (Wahabi) organisations in Pakistan for financial support, the report said. The ISI has roped in its trusted lieutenant Sheikh Jamil-ur-Rehman in the UJC so that it could have a complete control over the amalgam. Meanwhile, amidst fears of war looming large over it in mid-2002 and growing international pressure, ISI was quick enough to shift militant camps from PoK to other places in the country with strict restrictions on the movements of Kashmiri militants. Meanwhile, the camps in PoK were shifted and located at Haripur, Taxila, Boi, Garhi Habibullah and Tarbela Gazi in Pakistan and the ISI imposed severe restrictions on them. According to the report, the militants of various outfits except Hizbul Mujahideen, were shifted to a closed factory on Haripur-Taxila road in Punjab province, the report said. It said that the factory had been taken over by the Pakistan government on rent and handed over to ISI. There were about 500 militants in this camp which included Al-Barq (70 militants), Jamiat-ul-Mujahideen (65), Tehrek-e-Jehad (70), Islamic Front (25), Teherek-ul-Mujahideen (60), Muslim Janbaz Force, Al-Jehad and Al-Fateh (150 combined strength), Hizbullah (15), Al Umar (25), Harkat-ul-Jehad-e-Islamia (50) and JKLF (55). About of 2300 Hizbul Muajhideen cadres had been kept in Taxila camp and haripur camps around Islamabad. The loyalists of Abdul Majid Dar were shifted to Boi camp located at a place atop a hill on the confluence of river kaghan and river Jehlum on Muzzafarabad-Mansehra road in Pakistan. Another set of 300 to 400 militants had been lodged in Gari Habibullah camp and Tarbela Gazi Camp in North West Frontier Province of Pakistan. Besides the mounting international pressure, ISI s reason for shifting the camps was to avoid their killings, in the eventuality of a conflict with India as this could have strengthened New Delhi's claim about Pakistan running militant camps in PoK. The report said that after May this year, when the militants were shifted to these camps in Pakistan, ISI imposed restrictions on the free movement of militants. "They are not allowed to move out and those visiting them have to reach the camps in the night and leave before sun rise," it said and added that the Kashmiri boys in the camps were so fed up with the restrictions and uncertainity of the life that they were desperate to return to their homes. The arrested militant had said that the Kashmiri boys were waiting for the rail or road traffic to re-open to come back, the report said. Speaking on the infiltration from across the border, the report said ISI was only launching detachments of foreign militants into the state as they were not sure of infiltrating Kashmir boys due to the fear that they might surrender once they crossed over. Instead, the ISI has now chosen to give a new assignment to the Kashmiri boys, that is of making them porters and guides for foreign militants. A common perception of many people living in former British colonies is that Britain stole their wealth. Other than pre 1832 Caribbean colonies and pre-mutiny India commercial interests were not significant. Being the foremost world power was the dominating factor. I would think that there would be very few Brits, even with full knowledge of history, who would regard their history as having a dark past. Judging history by todays morality is wrong and dwelling on it is simply not productive
I think it is a matter of cultural perception. Being from the U.S., I have always enjoyed the British Museum. However, when I brought my girlfriend to visit it (whose family was bombed by the British in WWII) she said, “I always heard they were thieves and now here is proof”. When I was back in the museum this November I could see where she got that impression.
Do you want me to do the full length unedited version of black marks in American history? Too easy. Black marks on anyone who was bombed by the British??? Way too obvious. There is an even chance that those bombers were American. They may very well have been Canadian.
In general I agree with you Dennis. Add to this that there was a movement in Great Britian by some who wanted to divest themselves of the Empire because of cost. GB unlike Spain did not simply grab anything that was not nailed down. Britian was not perfect (ie carted off many historical items....which many times preserved them for us today) but Mangups' blanket assertions are nonsense. Most of the world's democracies owe much to G. Britian in terms of political system, human rights, judiciary, etc. Britian was a tremendous force for good in the world. Even in cases such as Ghandi's use of non violence, historians have made comment of the fact that this would have only worked with a moral country such as Great Britian. Same tactic would not have worked in Nazi Germany. There would have been no Ghandi. As an aside I get irritated with these revisionist tendencies to attempt to degrade Western Civilization and its contribution to the world. The pinnacle of this is the removal of courses on Western Civlization from college campus'. There is nothing wrong with looking realistically and appreciating other cultures but this nonsensical.....Western = bad bad and non Western = good good is rot. A realistic appraisal sees much good in Western Civilization. I could not imagine living in a world without it or frankly without the positive effects of Christianity (education, hosptials, women's rights, human rights, etc). North
Nonsense, Manjunath, rank nonsense! Such abjection, such cavilling! Look at the sad track record of India... a free press only sporadic persecution of Christians multiparty democracy technological progress civilian control of the military airplanes that actually fly ethnic and linguistic diversity free enquiry in universities no government-sponsored terrorism a constitution and...Bollywood! How dare you criticize our trustworthy ally, Pakistan. Why, they're almost as dependable as our other trustworthy ally BOOM BOOM Saudi Arabia.
On a not quite equally sad note, our only Indian restaurant closed. Sad to me because I love Indian food. With regard to Christians I must say that there has been some rather brutal persecution of Christians in India (horrific murders). On top of that, the rise of Hindu nationalism with racist overtones was chronicled on 60 minutes (?). Very sad for India. North
I must agree with the good Carpathian, uncle janko, about India. Incidently, I have never met a bad Carpathian nor any Carpathian, just a couple Bessarabians and a few Volhynians. In the region India stands out as the only liberal? democracy. With a billion people of diverse cultures and a poorly developed economy, this is truly amazing. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are American allies out of necessity alone. If each had their druthers they'd druther be allied somewhere else.
Au contraire Now my reading of the article is that the exhibit actually IS balaced--Brit Imperialism had benefits and costs to the native peoples. (And like Manjuap, I bear the consequence of having been a colony--although this goes almost unmentioned in this museum, a not inappropriate slight given current US influence upon Britain.) Dinesh D'souza argues that while first-generation colonial victims hace paid high prices in loss of traditions and traditionalism and native freedoms, next of later generations benefit from freedom of choice--from expanded opportunities. For example, the Brits brought the luxury of mass transit (trains), the benefit of reform of religion (practice of Thugee and Sutee--the latter was the Hindu ritual burning of widows on husbands funeral pyres) in India; the introduction of modern medicine (e.g., China) where western medicine IS prized above trad Chines medicine by those who can afford it. Why? Because it's more efficacious. But we could use a first-hand review by a board member at the museum (in Bristol?). Perhaps next summer? --Orson
