Happy Birthday, Chesty Puller..... Where ever you are..

Happy 227th Birthday, Marines!

Semper Fi,

Bill

 

Although I'm an Army veteran (101st Airborne & 1st Infantry Division), I'll forego the usually mandatory potshot at the Marines and wish them a happy birthday also.


Bruce

 

When I was enlisted in the Air Force, we really looked down on the Marines. We thought we were soooooo superior because of the Air Force's entrance requirements and the kinds of jobs and training we received.

When I was an officer, I really came to understand the special nature--and very high quality--of the Marine Corps, both its officers and enlisted personnel. And had I it to do over again, I would give much more serious consideration to becoming a Marine officer. Instant leadership all that.

If I was King of the Pentagon, I'd wipe out the current structure, replacing it with two forces. First, I'd have the strategic forces, which would include long-range bombers, missiles, and the nuke Navy. The rest I'd form into one big-assed Marine Corps--including most of the surface Navy--because the Marines understand the need to fight with an integrated force. They get it.

It would never happen, of course, because the military is much more about politics and personal power than it is about projecting our nation's fighting power.

 

To quote a long forgotten sergeant.

There's combat arms and no flipping arms. I believe he was meaning to say that if you aren't at the pointy end, you lack importance in the eyes of those who are.

The US Marines have certainly done a good job through history.

 

"Im an American and I'm a Marine. What more could I ask for?" Col. R.B. Fredey

To my Brother and Sister Marines,

For 227 years we have been leading the way and fighting the good fight. From the Bannana Wars to Bellow Woods, Iwo Jima to Inchon, Keh-san and Kabul. On the brink of another conflict, I am proud to be part of an illustrious organization with such a brilliant history. And if I am called to fight in the sands of the desert, I take comfort knowing that my fellow Marines have got my six, and that no Marine will ever be left behind.


Semper fi and Happy Birthday Marines,

Sgt. Michael Broderick, USMC

 

Banana...Belleau Wood...Khe Sanh

HAPPY BIRTHDAY USMC!

 

I briefly considered joining the Marines, but they wanted 4 years and the Army wanted 3 years.

Once I was in a STRAF/RDF unit, I came to realize that, by and large, the need for the Marine Corps has come and gone. The main purpose of the Marines is to conduct amphibious assaults, a form of war that we'll likely never see again (and the largest amphibiuous assault in the history of war was conducted by the U.S. Army in 1944).

The hard reality is that the Marines are now more about tradition than actual miltary need.

Flame away..........


Bruce

 

And you have personal knowledge of how the wars after the next one are to be fought.

A mix of skills are always needed, whether they are ever used.

After the Gulf War the Canadian Army bought desert cam uniforms and ten years later disposed of them because they would never be needed.

A Canadian battalion then went to Afghanistan looking like Christmas trees in the desert.

 

USMC forever.

OK, here comes the Sgt’s lesson for the know it all, boot privates or Marine wannabes on the modern Marine Corps warfare doctrine.

Yes, the first mission of the Marines was shipboard security, but as time passed the amphibious warfare doctrine became more prevalent, especially in WWII. After WWII there was lots of talk about dissolving the Marines, and that there would never be another beach landing again, and the Marines were not needed. Then came Korea and the biggest beach assault the Marines have ever done, Inchon.
Today, the Marines, apart from being amphibious, are expeditionary. We are the 911 force of America. We are flexable. As we are small and mobile, we can be anywhere at anytime in a moments notice. The Marines are not an occupying force, but we are the shock troops, the first in and the first out.
If you think that America doesn’t need the Marines, ask Scott O’Grady, or ask the Ambassadors and Consuls at the American Embassies around the world that Marines guard, or the different people around the world who have benefited from the many humanitarian missions the Marines have taken on today. Or maybe ask that child who received his or her only toy for Christmas thanks to the Marine Corps Reserve Toys for tots program.

You go ask them, and then you go tell that to the Marines.


S/F
Michael

 

Rich,

To be honest, we (Marines) feel we are superior to ALL the branches.

Entrance requirements? We have the toughest entrance requirements if I am not mistaken. Physical fitness, marksmanship, and length of recruit training exceed all the other branches requirements if I am not mistaken (what did you have to do for a physical fitness test, Rich?).

Are you referring to your more technical training? I had to go through tech training for 13 months (Navy A and C school) to become a component level avionics tech, just like I'm sure Airman and Soldiers have to (Yes, there are technical MOS's in the Marine Corps). Considering we had to make due with what little equipment we had, I dare to say we probably had BETTER training than other branches.

How about military standards? Well of course the Corps exceeds all the other branches, who else has E4 NCO's (well the Navy does as well) that are given such demanding leadership roles as compared to Army and Airforce equivilant?

Now with that said, If I were asked, "who would be the educated man's service?" I would probably say Airforce. They definately have more prestigous jobs (except maybe the tire inflator and airplane gas attendant <G>).

Bruce,

We have a saying in the Corps:

Adapt and overcome. (I'm sure you have something pretty similar in the army)

That's exactly what we do, adapt and overcome obstacles. If we are not needed to perform amphibious assaults anymore we will adapt to what ever environment we are needed in. We have a very extensive Urban Warfare program. We have desert ops (combined air exercises), cold weather training, terrorism task forces, and all the stuff I'm sure the Army has. We are NOT being phased out.

I can imagine us, instead of being a seperate branch (from the Department of Navy), we would become a division of the Navy. For example, instead of being Corporal Ready USMC/IRR, I would be Petty Officer 3rd Class Ready NMD/IRR (Naval Marine Division).... YUCH!! <G>. I do not think we will ever be replaced though.. (hope not).

Besides, who would fly the president in Marine One?? (wouldn't be the Army they would be on time ot pick him up... )

Best Regards,
Bill

 

Wow! That was beautiful, Mike. You are making my eyeballs sweat!

Happy birthday, brother.

Best Regards,
Bill

 

There you go!

 

This was MEANT to be:

wouldn't be the Army they would NOT be on time ot pick him up...

I feel silly now.

 

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARINE CORPS

The Marine Corps will be around for many more.

"As the Nation's premier expeditionary force in readiness, the Navy/Marine Corps Team is prepared to operate anywhere our national interests require. As the leading element within a Joint Force, our forces respond to any level of conflict. Because the Navy/Marine Corps team operates from the sea, we are less encumbered by the political constraints often encountered by forces tied to land-based infrastructure. The only invitation we require to move to a crisis area is a request from the geographic combatant commander and an order from the National Command Authorities. Amphibious and maritime prepositioning forces play an ever-increasing role in supporting the attainment of our national objectives while protecting our national interests. As our operational reach increases so does the depth and degree to which we can influence events ashore".

http://www.navymarinecorpsteam.info/leadership.html

The appointment of General James Jones to SACEUR should be noted.

"In a significant move, Gen. James Jones, the Marine commandant, is slated to become Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, a position once held by Dwight D. Eisenhower and currently occupied by Air Force Gen. Joseph Ralston. Jones was picked, said a senior defense official, because “he dared to be different.”

The selection of Jones is not expected to be announced for several months and, like the other positions, requires congressional approval. His nomination is unusual for three reasons. It will be the first time a Marine has held the position. It will be the first time a Marine commandant has moved on to another top job in the U.S. military. And it will be the first time that the U.S. military commander in Europe will be someone born there. Jones was born in Paris and “spent his formative years” there, according to his official biography.

By picking a general from the Marines, the service most comfortable with being “expeditionary” - that is, being able to deploy quickly to Third World hot spots and engage in a variety of missions, from full-scale combat to peacekeeping - Rumsfeld also may be seeking to shake up the U.S. military in Europe. There are few Marines based in Europe, but there are several major Army headquarters there, and Pentagon officials have hinted that those offices will be cut or abolished in the coming years".

http://www.thefontman.com/commandant.htm

 

Re: USMC forever.

That's all well & good, but the fact remains that anything the Marines do or can do, could be done by the Army. That's not meant as an insult, that's just the way it is. Watch the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan.

I had several occasions to train with Marines (Air Assault School, Recondo School, Team Spirit), some had excellent soldiering skills, some were mediocre, and others were terrible. In other words, no better and no worse than the Army.

I'm not advocating dissolving the Marines. But, if you remove emotion from the equation, you have to conclude that they are the most expendable branch of the Armed Forces.


Bruce

 

Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARINE CORPS

I think that military doctrine has been undergoing some radical changes since the end of the Cold War. The probability of massive World War II-style battles has dropped. Meanwhile, the odds of less conventional expeditionary warfare has risen, as Afghanistan illustrated.

And as our foreign military bases around the world are shut down, we are going to be increasingly dependent on sea based forces for long distance power projection.

I'm not sure what's up with Iraq. But if it does end in war, I think that it might be an eye opener. We may see some dramatic new tactics, more like Afghanistan on a large scale than a replay of the massed movements of the Gulf War.

If there's any truth to this, then the greatest premium will be on elite forces that are extremely flexible and mobile. They will have to operate seamlessly with air support deep inside hostile territory and will need cutting-edge intelligence and logistics.

So I don't see the Marines going away, though perhaps they might conceivably be folded into an expanded land-sea-air expeditionary warfare force at some point.

If I had to guess which forces are most obsolescent, I'd guess probably the heavy armored divisions intended to counter the Warsaw Pact in Northern Europe, much of the strategic nuclear deterrent and perhaps many of the navy frigates built to deal with a huge Soviet submarine force that no longer exists.

 

Re: Re: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARINE CORPS

If we get into another full-scale ground war with Iraq, we're going to need heavy armor in spades. I had a front seat during the Persian Gulf War (I was with the 1st Infantry Division, the Big Red One), and trust me, it was no place for light infantry.

As a matter of fact, the commanding General of the Marines during the Gulf War made such a stink about his lack of heavy armor that the "Tiger Brigade" of the U.S. Army's 2nd Armored Division ("Hell on Wheels") was assigned to the 2nd Marine Division for the duration of the war.

Of course, that wasn't the first time the Army bailed out the Marines. After all, it was the Army's 1st Cavalry Division that broke through to save the Marines at Khe Sanh during the Vietnam War.


Bruce

 

Happy Birthday Marines

As a civilian with strong ties to the United States Marine Corps, let me say Happy 227th Birthday. I hope that all those who spout off about the impending demise of the Marine Corps remember today the sacrifices made by countless members of this proud service and pay homage to those brave souls. It is unimportant (at least on their day) that we debate the future of the Corps. As a close personal friend of Maj. General Keyes (Marine Commander in Desert Storm), I know the type of relationships he described between the services that made that encounter successful. I am proud of all the branches of our armed forces and the men and women who serve. Let us this day pay tribute to a proud Corps and wish them many more!

 

What I was referring to regarding entrance requirements was the ASVAB and education. The Marines have at times accepted "Category 4" applicants, which can be as low as the 16th percentile. The Army and Navy sometimes accepted "Category 3" applicants, which can be as low as the 31st percentile. The Air Force only accepted (when I was involved in such matters) Category 2 (45th percentile) and Category 1 applicants. Also, the Air Force stopped accepting non-high-school graduates who scored in Category 1.

(Note that all of this is dated--I've been retired from active duty for almost 7 years now.)

I'm not saying the Marines aren't selective, but education and test scores tended not to halt the enlistment of a recruit. And then there were the very well-documented cheating scandals in the Marines, where background checks on recruits were falsified (by changing one letter in the recruit's name) to hide their criminal records. That behavior, disclosed nationwide on television, boosted numbers, but hardly quality.

Still, I like 'em, and I think we need a larger, not smaller, Marine Corps.

 

When I took the ASVAB, I qualified for just about every MOS the Army had to offer. Still, my recruiter was thrilled when I selected 11B (Light Infantry) for the $2500 enlistment bonus, a lot of money for an 18-year old in 1983.


Bruce