Hello, Interestingly, my daughter who begins working for a new company shortly had to produce her college degree for visual inspection to the Human Resources director. Its validity was confirmed. This is something new. Hille
Now =that's= bizarre. It seems to me that it would be infinitely easier to forge a diploma than a transcript sent directly from the institution (and, subsequently, a follow-up phone call or letter of confirmation).
I'm more inclined to think that it's something old. At least in the United States, the practice of actually showing your diploma to prospective employers was once widespread, when no other quick method existed to verify graduation. But today, I think that most employers directly contact the university that granted the degree and verify it that way. Certainly I have never been called upon to show my bachelors diploma to anyone since I earned it in 1980. I'm not even sure where it is any longer (in a box in the basement, I think). But I'm told that in Latin America, employers routinely want to see the actual physical diploma, and people will present them in ornate and expensive cases.
I have also had to produce my Masters degree diploma as a part of the credentialing process where I work. The explanation as to "Why the diploma and not the transcripts?" was answered with, "Because people complain about having to pay for transcripts to be sent whereas the xerox of the diploma can be done essentially for free." Perhaps not a great rationale, but there it is. Jack
At the registrars' convention last year, there were 3 or 4 companies selling diploma identification technology, in which diplomas are imprinted with either overt (e.g., tiny serial numbers, or watermarks) or covert (e.g., microprint lines, as on the new US currency, unXeroxable) technologies. (One company said their technology was so secret, they only tell clients what it was). Without this sort of thing, seeing an actual diploma is quite useless, given all the counterfeiting services out there, not to mention the quality of color copies. My fake Harvard MD is an excellent reproduction that looks like the real thing. If I were going to submit it to an employer, I might even cut off the line of tiny type at the very bottom edge that says, "For novelty purposes only. Does not signify academic achievement."
wE'RE GOING THE OPPOSITE WAY IN THE UK! Increasingly, people are being asked to produce their 'original' diplomas at interview or after interview if appointed. However, for decades the Middle Eastern countries have always required this! At one point in my career I was a recruitment consultant. I interviewed someone for a very senior post in Saudi Arabia (you HAVE to produce original certs/dips for Middle East countries) at interview. This guy brought a Bachelor Science degree diploma in Chemcial Engineering along and it looked authentic. I'd been doing the job so long I knew the Vice-C hancellor's signature was not for-real! Questioned the candidate....adn you can guess the rest! He may well have got away with it otherwise. However....he had been doing the job he had applied for extremely well, for 20 years, with another employer! 'telfax'
In the process of applying for admission to several South Efrican universities, one of them insisted on getting notarized sworn copies of my diplomas. Of course I've lost my MA diploma and getting a replacement has been a pain in the toches. It seems curious that a direct-sent transcript and a letter from the dean verifying the degree aren't good enough, especially since a small-town notary would scarcely be in a position to know if an original diploma were fake or real. For that matter, how would a South Efrican functionary know whether a US notarization was real or not? Seems silly.
Surely the paper is perforated along that line? I mean, duh! Lawrie Miller http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/
And yet, I was asked the same thing, by Florida State University (and in original language, too!). I admit English documents from Ukrainian institution may seem obscure (and I had to mail transcriprs myself: my university doesn't do that).
I went to notarize some legal documents in South Miami and the notary was a small kid (may be a 17yr girl from school !! ??) and she signed all the documents without even looking at the originals and she could not speak proper english (I had all the originals inside my bag in case). She can easily notarize any fake degrees even without looking at the diploma. I can give you the name of the place if you need.
Showing you actual diploma is a common practice in Latin America, and to give an application in some places, you need to have a copy of it, since they want to make sure that you have the credentials for the position. When I came to live in the US I have my Diploma with me all the time, after several interviews I was surprised the never ask for it or show any interest after offering to show them my diploma. As far I know the State of Florida does ask copy of the diploma for position that requires a bachelor’s degree.
I have had several occasions where diplomas had to be produced. The first was with a research university and they wanted a copy of my doctoral diploma for an adjunct posiiton. The second was with my current employer whom I have been with for eleven years. Just a couple of years ago they asked all employees in our division to supply copies of diplomas and certificates earned. John
Just once, about 25 years ago. It was a professional association and I had transcripts sent that clearly stated my degree. The guy who requested was, in my observation, about 100 years old and as I had moved a few times, I had a challenge finding the degree.
Generally, likewise. Of all the schools I have attended the most exorbitant is a whopping $5.00 =but= a couple send the first copy absolutely free of charge.
Hello, I wanted to add that TESC had to confirm that it was a REAL DEGREE not a manufactured diploma. Those familiar with the TESC customer service realize the awesome task that is involved with this. Hille
========================================= Now, now Unk, you're just being your usual cantankerous self ... oft displayed when anyone doubts you. Unizul also required I send photo copies of my diplomas, but of course they just took MY word that they were veracious. ============================================
In a feeble attempt to be constructive, let's summarize some of the administrative issues with universities in South Africa for newcomers to this area of DL: Some unis will require that an applicant's transcripts be reviewed by SAQA (a government agency) in order to verify the legitimacy of the school(s) attended. This is apparently a universal requirement now, but it is not always imposed. You may be asked for high school transcripts, even many many years afterhigh school graduation. Most SA universities are slow or nonexistent in replying to e-mail. Bill Grover's experience with Unizul's prompt replies is unusual. Telephoning (or fax) is the fastest way to get worthwhile replies to your questions. Most SA professors are fairly approachable (in my own experience) in phone conversation. This may sound dumb to those experienced in overseas telephoning, but be aware of momentary pauses in transmission during your phone calls. Remember also that the "accent" differential between US and SA anglophones can be great, not to mention that English is a second language for many SA university personnel. Your quirks of pronunciation and vocabulary may be sources of momentary puzzlement to your hearers, just as theirs may be to you. Opening bank accounts with SA banks to handle fee payment is probably not worth the trouble. Despite the substantial fees (often US$25 - 40) for wire transfers from your US bank to SA, you are likelier to be happy with stateside bank service, according to many SA expats. If you have long memories, the wide difference in exchange value between the rand and the US dollar may come as a shock. In discussions with SAns, remember that your bargain in fees is the flipside of their living with a depreciated currency. The SA Minister of Education has been hazarding various proposals for the merger of SA universities and technikons. So far, the greatest institutional changes have been aimed at "historically disadvantaged" (read: traditionally non-white) institutions. Check with the Faculty/Department of the university to which you are planning to apply about their assessment of the likely effect (if any at all) of mergers. These are a few things I've encountered, presented "without horns and without teeth."
