Can the issue of accreditation kill Black colleges?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Tommy Fisher, Sep 18, 2002.

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  1. Tommy Fisher

    Tommy Fisher New Member

    Just one year after its centennial celebration, Louisiana’s Grambling State University, one of Black America’s premier learning institutions has until September 16 to submit acceptable audit records to a national financial accrediting group or lose its official certification. Loss of accreditation would be catastrophic and include the loss of federal funding, degree-honored programs and the displacement of thousands of attending Blacks with worthless transcripts.

    Read more: http://www.finalcall.com/national/colleges09-17-2002.htm
     
  2. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I can't really comment on Grambling's administration, but I have known some fine faculty there. Many, many universities complain routinely about the high cost of the accreditation process. Perhaps, there should be an investigation into the effects of a monopolistic accreditation system on institutional accreditation costs.

    Tony
     
  3. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    I live in Mississippi, a state with a disproportionately high number of HBCUs, and don't recall any losing accreditation in recent years; Tougaloo was placed on warning status at one point, but then so were two Cal State campuses (including mine). The Grambling State situation is dire, but not a particularly common one among HBCUs.

    The implication of the statement that accreditation would "kill" black colleges, as the headline said, is that historically black colleges can't pass muster by "white" accreditation standards. But they do, and they have done so for decades. I see no general crisis among HBCUs, but I do hope the Grambling State situation is resolved (though it would not be the first college, black or otherwise, to lose regional accreditation).


    Cheers,
     
  4. jon porter

    jon porter New Member

  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    My 2 cents...

    Since it is a black college, some leniency should be granted, albeit it should be done behind closed doors so that it doesn’t make a stink.
     
  6. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Where's Enron's auditor when they're really needed?

    If the whole credibility and survival of the institution is at stake, one would think that a controller with an attitude would be found who would roll some heads.

    Incompetent bookkeeping and missing documentation, always got me going in my auditing days. First sign of problems.

    Advice to auditors. When auditing hospitals, don't do an inventory count on the heroine. It's not worth much and when it is missing they get more upset than with tongue depressors.
     
  7. DCross

    DCross New Member

    Re: My 2 cents...


    Why on Earth would you suggest that? I am black and I don't think we need special cases so that we too can have our own colleges. Lowering standards will only lower the quality of education. That is not the goal. If a college cannot cut it, it should lose its accreditation; regardless of whether or not it is a black college.
     
  8. The Real Shame...

    I agree with your statement Darren but the real shame of the Grambling situation is that it is not about Academic Quality!Finance is just one area of the accredidation process. If accredidation gets pulled, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the general public would be unaware of the quality of academic programs and just paint the school with some racial brush citing lack of quality.

    Regards,

    Dick

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2002
  9. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Do an Arthur Anderson audit to give the disadvantaged a chance? How in the hell does it give somebody a chance, to allow someone else to steal their money? If there are money problems at Grambling (and I sure don't know whether or not there are), fix 'em or nix 'em. There are plenty of well-run HBCU's around that don't require special treatment. Am I any less deprived if the person who rips me off is of my own race or ethnic background?
    :mad:
     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    The link supplied is to the online version of "The Final Call", a newspaper published by the Nation of Islam (Louis Farrakhan's outfit). The central theme of every edition seems to be that the white race is to blame for every injustice on the planet.

    Whatever Grambling's situation may be, I wouldn't place too much faith in the spin that the NOI puts on it.


    Bruce
     
  11. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

  12. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    Perhaps it should be kept in mind that one of the most important functions of accreditation as far as DOE is concerned is whether the students at a given institution are eligible for federal student financial aid.

    Accreditation IS a financial matter.

    Nosborne, JD
     
  13. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    My prediction is Grambling will never lose accreditation no matter what the issues or problems. The regional accrediting bodies need political support to maintain their respective monopolies. And I suspect Grambling has many powerful supporters in Congress.
     
  14. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Gotta do what we gotta do...

    I very much agree with that.

    Bruce, what do you think? < wink >
     
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Gotta do what we gotta do...

    I agree with you agreeing with David. There is no way that a HBCU will ever lose accreditation in today's politically correct environment.


    Bruce
     
  16. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Other schools have lost their accreditation, it does happen. But before it comes to that, I would expect Grambling to get put on probation. And before the Lousiana state higher education authorities let one of their state universities lose its accreditation, I would expect dramatic action.

    I don't understand that remark.

    Perhaps. But who, in the age of Enron and Dennis Kozlowski, is going to defend an institution accused of possibly felonious misuse of public funds?

    I agree that it's unlikely that Grambling will lose its accreditation. And if it does, it will only be lost for a short period. But that's because the problems can probably be addressed short of that draconian "solution" which would hurt a lot of innocent students and alumni that both the state and the accreditors are at least ostensibly trying to protect.

    The way I see it, the accreditation threat is probably an ultimatum intended to get the state authorities off their butts, to defeat stonewalling school administrators, and to finally get the problems effectively addressed. That's the ultimate goal.
     
  17. David Boyd

    David Boyd New Member

    Original statement:The regional accrediting bodies need political support to maintain their respective monopolies.

    Bill's Comment:
    I don't understand that remark.

    Reply:
    Each of the regional accrediting bodies have a monopoly within their respective jurisdictions. There are no overlapping states. For example, if a school is based in California and desires regional accreditation, they must apply to WASC even if another region’s standards might be more attractive.

    As a result it is, in my humble opinion, in the best interests of the regional bodies to avoid situations which could result in high profile litigation or would cause powerful people in Congress to re-evaluate the current DOE accreditation recognition policies and procedures.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2002
  18. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    Re: Re: Gotta do what we gotta do...

    I don't know about that--I'm confident that several HBCUs have, though I can't think of any by name--but what I think folks should bear in mind here is that any school old enough to be a HBCU has been around long enough to set down roots, and that older schools are disproportionately likely to keep their accreditation.

    To be honest, this whole thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth; the underlying liberal assumption seems to be that HBCUs were wounded by decades of oppression and shouldn't have to meet "white" standards, while the underlying conservative assumption seems to be that the liberals will have their way, and shouldn't. Isn't it possible that there's a third option: That most HBCUs do meet "white" standards, and that this is precisely why most of them haven't lost their accreditation? And shouldn't we acknowledge that not all HBCUs are alike? Surely nobody here is suggesting that Howard University has ever had to rely on political correctness to keep its accreditation.


    Cheers,
     
  19. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Gotta do what we gotta do...

    The NOI article that started this thread gave several examples of what it suggested was RA harassment of the HBCU's. So while I'm not sure how common it is for them to get their accreditation pulled, apparently the accreditors give them no special favor in pointing out shortcomings. That's as it should be.

    Sure, (though I don't know if I'd call them "white standards").

    Howard and Morehouse are sort of "black ivys" that educate much of America's black elite. Both have produced Nobel Prize winners. But others do struggle trying to maintain their academic standards while educating a low income student population that's too often poorly prepared for university work.

    I think that, paradoxically, the successes of the civil rights movement have been a challenge to the HBCUs because they now must compete with many other schools for the better prepared black students. At the same time, many of the HBCU's seem unable (or unwilling) to attract large numbers of white (or other) students that might alter the schools' traditional identity and culture.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2002

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