Hey folks, Have you heard of this book called "The Bible Fraud" by Tony Bushby? I've been reading a bit about it when I saw a link from a political site. Here is the URL to the site http://www.thebiblefraud.com Thoughts on this? Take care, Matt
As a liberal Jew, I don't have a dog in this fight BUT: I note a link to www.ramtha.com Isn't that the spirit some woman who moved to Yelm, WA "channels" for? And appears to do very well financially out of it? Nosborne, JD (who really DOESN'T have a dog in this fight)
Well............ From a profiteer or fanatical standpoint this book is the holy grail for the writer. I hope, as I always do (especially with religious topics), that people will take this with a grain of salt. As far as my thoughts, it looks like tabloid trash. Take care, Tony
It appears this guy is out for his own financial gain. However, I've heard from a friend who has studied biblical issues that there have been political changes over time with the Bible. I'm a Christian myself, but I'm honestly looking and researching to find the truth. I'm only 21. Here is an excerpt from the email I received: Thoughts on this?
I have always believed that you should read a book before you disagree with it or condemn it. I have never read the book mentioned here. Now, having said that, let me break my rule. I would have to say that the info that I saw on the website was some of the most outlandish stuff that I have ever seen. It is easy to make up a fictitious story and then try to pass it off as true - especially when it is about a subject that very few people have indepth knowledge about. Secondly, it assumes some things that just aren't so - for example, it says that "the church heirarchy...". What church heirarchy? Which denomination is he talking about. Catholic? Well, I am sure that the Orthodox, Protestant and others would disavow that any decision made by the Catholics would be representative of their own particular beliefs, and vice versa. My opinion is that some people will do almost anything to not be responsible to Almighty God. This is what it took for this particular fellow to do so. My opinion is also that he will regret this book at some point in the future - I pray sooner rather than later. my thoughts, clint (who hopes no one was offended by this. But the subject line was "question on theology," so if you are easily offended by theological discussion, you really should have avoided this one...)
As a discalced unitarian, I don't have a dog in this fight either--but I do have to wonder why anyone would give any positive or negative credit to an article that claims part of the Bible was written in "Roman," or critiques New Testament writings from the standpoint of Hebrew etymology, or implies that we might find the word "Jehovah" in the untranslated text. Cheers,
I am offended, Clint. Clint, I am deeply offended by your post. But only because you didn't make it sooner.
Re: I am offended, Clint. OK Russell... Lets see, if my calculations are correct (and I could very well be wrong...), the original message was up just about 7 hours before my post. It just so happens that those 7 hours were night time hours here in Estonia, so I was sleeping. Next time, I will get up earlier to check the forum clint who wonders if the author of the book in question might have more luck influencing "bible folks" if he claimed the Bible was written in "Ancient Babylonifican"???
Certainly there have been many sources and many different translations, and any translation is dependent on the translators' knowledge, philosophy, etc... For another take on this, see: Mistranslated Myths Of Nomadic Desert Shepherd Tribe Taken At Face Value http://www.theonion.com/onion3616/mistranslated_myths.html God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/god_clarifies_dont_kill.html
Thank you for mentioning the "Jehovah" nonsense. This error wouldn't delude tens of thousands of Christians today if they'd only ASKED A JEW! Nosborne, J.D. (who has just a few MAJOR pet peeves!)
Nosborne: One of the best things that ever happened to my Christianity was spending a year as a guest at a synagogue, attending services--especially weekday services made a big impact on me. Once they were sure it wasn't some weird stealth missionary thing (a contradiction in terms as far as I'm concerned) it was great. The older folks got a kick out of my using Ashkenazic pronunciation of Hebrew (what I heard from Jews when I was a kid); they said it reminded them of their parents, etc. I won't go into the theology thing here, but it had a terrific influence on my subsequent Bible teaching and preaching and I'm much the better for the experience.
I was hoping someone would list something from the Onion, since I was feeling too lazy to find the URLs myself. (The first of the two is my personal favorite, I think, though they're both pretty darned cool, as the Onion has a tendency to be from time to time.) Cheers,
[SCENE: Tom Head, his Hebrew instructor, the local rabbi, and five classmates are sitting in the local synagogue's library. Tom spots a strange series of four letters and, without really thinking, asks...] TOM: "So how is this word pronounced?" HEBREW INSTRUCTOR: "Adonai." That's the best way of addressing this whole issue as far as I'm concerned--yud hay vav hay really is pronounced "Adonai." Nobody to whom the letters mean anything would pronounce them differently. Cheers,
The original hoolerei sounds a bit like JC (no, not that JC by a long shot, I'm talking about the distance learning rev dr JC) and his aramaic bible silliness. Holy (Pe)shit(ta), to put it, uh, simply.
We DO pronounce it "Adonai" and wouldn't even attempt to say it any other way, whether we're believers or not. However, Mishnah tells us that the Name was pronounced ONLY during Yom Kippur and ONLY by that year's High Priest and ONLY in the Holy of Holies. Where did he learn how to say it? This is an interesting subject right now as Friday is erev Rosh H'shannah and in a very short time I'll be spending a grumpy day in synagogue. BTW, for a lawyer, the Yom Kippur service is full of interest. But what IS it about some Christians that they don't make the connection between the Bible and the Jews? Do they think the Bible was written in English? Nosborne, J. D. (Who promises to calm down)
Nosborne: gut yontef. So I'm early. Do what I do, mutatis mutandis, during long services (other than my own): bring a tiny Tanach along so that you have something worthwhile to read. I do this with a pocket NT at regional church conventions all the time. Works like a charm. I can "listen" to my fellow clerics for hours and hours. Anybody questions, you just say you're looking something up. For the record, I only fell asleep once while I was preaching. You're right about Christians not "getting" the connection between the Bible & the Jews. I never knew they did *not *grasp that until I was teaching an adult Bible class a couple years out of seminary and one of the little old ladies (who was otherwise fairly sharp) asked me whether any of the twelve disciples were Jews. I do have a lot less trouble getting the connection across to far-right-wing Lutherans than I did when I was wandering around on the "enlightened" mainline. That came as something of a surprise. Without stirring up a hornet's nest on the place of higher criticism, if a church does not take the historicity of the Bible seriously, they're not going to "get" the connection between the Bible and the Jews. Have you seen Bruce Feiler's "Walking Through the Bible?" Very funny and very moving.
Good point; now that you mention it, I have no idea. I seem to vaguely recall running across something in rabbinic literature about it being passed down by each High Priest from generation to generation, beginning with Aaron, but my memory in this respect is so fuzzy that I could very well have dreamed this reference. There are still folks in religious studies who use the six-letter Y word to refer to "the Hebrew god," which I consider a patronizing relic of 19th century religious studies and one that should have been scrapped long ago. If theorists in the field must treat Judaism as if it were an animistic religion with 400 named gods, they should at least apply a name that is actually used in the Jewish tradition. I do use "Jehovah," but only when referring to those protestant sects of Christianity that use that word on an official basis. If theologians here really want to get under my skin and make me switch fields, they can invent a sect of Christianity that uses the six-letter Y word. Cheers,
Tom: Channing would be proud of you! It used to bug me when the ostensible pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was used in seminary--just as it is used in the Jerusalem Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible. The offense to Jewish sensibilities seems deliberate and shameful. Besides, the reverence for the name of Jesus in the NT makes no sense whatever except in counterpoint to the traditional reverence for the Tetragrammaton.
