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  1. #1
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Lightbulb AI predicts whether gay or straight from photo (81% accuracy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Levin
    Artificial intelligence can accurately guess whether people are gay or straight based on photos of their faces, according to new research suggesting that machines can have significantly better “gaydar” than humans. An algorithm deduced the sexuality of people on a dating site with up to 91% accuracy, raising tricky ethical questions about...
    Full story:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...m-a-photograph
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    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    So, that's extremely strong evidence for nature rather than nurture. Thanks for sharing!
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  3. #3
    Maniac Craniac is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    So, that's extremely strong evidence for nature rather than nurture.
    I would disagree with this as I could possibly come up with at least half a dozen reasonable social science and statistics based arguments against the assertion. In fact, it would be very easy to spin the perspective to the equally viable assertion that this is extremely strong evidence for nurture.

    I would agree that it is very meaningful data, if accurate, which I won't spend time trying to verify as I lay in bed typing this on my laptop, eagerly waiting to count the last sheep.
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    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac Craniac View Post
    I would disagree with this as I could possibly come up with at least half a dozen reasonable social science and statistics based arguments against the assertion. In fact, it would be very easy to spin the perspective to the equally viable assertion that this is extremely strong evidence for nurture.
    You think that gay men tend to have narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads because... of the way they were raised?
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    cookderosa is offline Resident Chef
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    I'm going to get in and get out before this thread turns into a fire storm- but here's a thought - people need to stay the *bleep* out of other people's lives. Seriously.
    Jennifer
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    decimon is offline Registered User
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    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookderosa View Post
    I'm going to get in and get out before this thread turns into a fire storm- but here's a thought - people need to stay the *bleep* out of other people's lives. Seriously.
    Researchers and students at Stanford University are the ones who have delved into the topic using a combination of algorithmic fashion design (nurture) and algorithmic physical design (nature).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Levin
    The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa.
    Styles come and go. If specific styles are currently associated with gaydom, then those styles can be inputted into the algorithm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Levin
    The data also identified certain trends, including that gay men had narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads than straight men, and that gay women had larger jaws and smaller foreheads compared to straight women.
    If people are born to look a certain stereotypical way, then it could become a psychological self-fulfilling prophecy for some (not all) of them.
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    03310151 is offline Registered User
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    Article says 91%. But in reading the article it looks like, apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles of people who self-identified as "gay".


    Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite "tell".

  10. #9
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by 03310151 View Post
    Article says 91%. But in reading the article it looks like, apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles of people who self-identified as "gay".

    Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite "tell".
    That's an excellent observation. Instead of pulling photos from dating profiles (where people identify as being gay), it would be interesting to pull photos from:
    - a drivers license database
    - or from a high school yearbook
    - or from some other neutral database.

    The ability of AI to have such high probability statistics would invariably be significantly reduced if a neutral database was used for their experiment. However, it would be near impossible to use a drivers license database, due to privacy issues.
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    Maniac Craniac is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    You think that gay men tend to have narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads because... of the way they were raised?
    What I think is entirely irrelevant to the question.

    Also, for one of the major propositions of the nurture argument, you have it exactly backwards.
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    Johann is offline Registered User
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    My son once had a cat that loved the company of gay men. Remarkable animal. I'm told he "knew" once or twice, before the man did!

    J.

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    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    I haven't really read the article so forgive me if these factors are discussed in there somewhere but our conversation has raised two questions in my mind. The first is that it would almost certainly be interesting to see the predictive power of the tool if a global population were used as the sample. If, for example, they used a collection of people from Mongolia, or Iceland or Japan, etc. would they get statistically identical/similar results? Secondly, I'd want to point out that the gay/straight binary is a myth. There are a number of points on that sexuality continuum, the most obvious being people who are bisexual. So did they sort people into "strictly straight" v. "anything other than strictly straight" categories or something other than that?
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    cookderosa is offline Resident Chef
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    That's an excellent observation. Instead of pulling photos from dating profiles (where people identify as being gay), it would be interesting to pull photos from:
    - a drivers license database
    - or from a high school yearbook
    - or from some other neutral database.

    The ability of AI to have such high probability statistics would invariably be significantly reduced if a neutral database was used for their experiment. However, it would be near impossible to use a drivers license database, due to privacy issues.
    But then the researchers would have to contact the participants, disclose to the participants that they are attempting to identify their sexual preference, get informed consent, the whole ball of wax.
    In the cases where they found people who self-identify on a website, I'm guessing there was no contact between the researchers and subjects necessary - certainly takes out a lot of red tape.
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    Abner is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    My son once had a cat that loved the company of gay men. Remarkable animal. I'm told he "knew" once or twice, before the man did!

    J.
    Ay Johann! He he!
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    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet
    Secondly, I'd want to point out that the gay/straight binary is a myth. There are a number of points on that sexuality continuum, the most obvious being people who are bisexual.
    (1) Kudos to Kizmet, for the above.
    (2) Kudos to decimon, for his reference to now-debunked phrenology. Very much à propos.
    (3) Kudos to Jennifer for her comment about staying the *bleep* out of people's lives. I sometimes forget this.

    J.

  18. #16
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookderosa View Post
    I'm going to get in and get out before this thread turns into a fire storm- but here's a thought - people need to stay the *bleep* out of other people's lives. Seriously.
    There's a novel concept!!

    If someone wants me to know their sexual orientation (not that I even care), they'll tell me. Otherwise, it's none of my (or anyone else's) business.

    What next, AI can tell if you're liberal or conservative?
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