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  1. #1
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Thumbs down Black nationalist: "I Hope Trump Is Assassinated"

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Ross
    An African American Missouri state senator (Democrat) named Maria Chappelle-Nadal wrote in a Facebook post: “I hope Trump is assassinated!” She made the comment to a left-wing activist.

    When asked by a reporter if she plans to resign, Chapelle-Nadal said, “Hell no!”

    The U.S. Secret Service is looking into Chappelle-Nadal’s post.

    Alt.left proponents are now openly calling for violence, civil disorder, assassinations and a coup in the presidency of the United States.
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  2. #2
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    I think the Secret Service arrests people who make these kinds of threats. Even if it was a "hope" and not a threat I think it's a bad thing to wish someone dead. Bad karma.
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  3. #3
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    I don't know if it's accurate to call her a black nationalist but it seems that she may soon be out of a job

    Missouri lawmaker faces pressure to resign after posting 'I hope Trump is assassinated' on Facebook | syracuse.com
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  4. #4
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Thumbs down Senator voices desirability of assassinating President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Ross View Post
    An African American Missouri state senator (Democrat) named Maria Chappelle-Nadal wrote in a Facebook post: “I hope Trump is assassinated!” She made the comment to a left-wing activist. When asked by a reporter if she plans to resign, Chapelle-Nadal said, “Hell no!”
    Those who are duly elected to lead the people should not make public declarations that they desire President Trump to be assassinated.

    18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating desirability of assassination:
    Whoever advocates, abets, advises or teaches the desirability of assassinating any officer of the United States government shall be imprisoned not more than twenty years and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or...
    That's alt.left leadership at its worst.
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
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  5. #5
    Steve Levicoff is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating desirability of assassination:
    Whoever advocates, abets, advises or teaches the desirability of assassinating any officer of the United States government shall be imprisoned not more than twenty years and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or...
    Ya know, me again, notwithstanding that you tend to be antagonistic, an instigator, and all-around right wing nut (although funny on occasion), I've never known you to so blatantly misrepresent the facts as you do here.

    Here is the entire section of the U.S. Code you referenced:

    §2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
    Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

    Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

    Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof-

    Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

    If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

    As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
    Perhaps you'd care to correct your reference, although I can tell you that a quick text search of the terms you used comes up with nothing in the U.S. Code.

    I'm disappointed in you, buddy - and hope that your theological research at Franciscan U. is more accurate than what you have presented here.

  6. #6
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Thumbs up Dr. Levicoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    Ya know, me again, notwithstanding that you tend to be antagonistic, an instigator, and all-around right wing nut (although funny on occasion), I've never known you to so blatantly misrepresent the facts as you do here.

    Perhaps you'd care to correct your reference, although I can tell you that a quick text search of the terms you used comes up with nothing in the U.S. Code.

    I'm disappointed in you, buddy - and hope that your theological research at Franciscan U. is more accurate than what you have presented here.
    Hi Dr. Steve Levicoff. :-)

    Do you present your opinion here, based on your years of experiencing in presenting probable cause affidavits to prosecutors for their consideration? Or are you simply making an educated guess, although you have no personal experience, nor educational specialization in the area of expertise that you are referring to? We both know the answer to that.

    When an affidavit is presented, the entire law is not copied-and-pasted into it. Only certain elements of the law are put into the affidavit. It may also be based on preexisting case law, which is not codified in the statute or code, contingent on the law that is being cited.

    Does the Facebook post of Maria Chappelle-Nadal fall into said category? There are too many legal and political variables to consider at a tiny informal internet chat forum. Suffice it to say that if a prosecutor wants to arrest Maria Chappelle-Nadal for her comments, one of the variables to consider is political in nature, similar to Mueller's special council, which has found absolutely no evidence supporting the allegation that President Trump colluded with Russians to steal the election from HRC.

    In the end, President Trump will come out smelling sweet, while the same cannot be said for Ms. Maria Chappelle-Nadal. She will invariably just go away. However, President Trump will remain for two full presidential terms.

    And to answer your query about studies at Franciscan University at Steubenville -- the studies are extremely difficult, as well as overwhelming. It is frankly a struggle to stay afloat. Still struggling and trying, but have not quit... yet... only with God's help will graduation occur. Time will tell. God knows, but this writer does not! It's hard. So hard. Anyone who is looking for an academically easy degree should stay away. Word to the wise. Conversely, it deals with issues that have eternally rock-solid consequences... so it's vitally important.
    Last edited by me again; 08-18-2017 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Keep America Great!
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  7. #7
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Question Alt.left v. Right wing nut?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    ...you tend to be... a right wing nut...
    Understood. Conversely, Dr. Levicoff, as polar opposites, would that make you:

    An alt.left (insert it here)?

    Things are what they are, but they don't have to remain that way. In all seriousness, you are very special, gifted and intelligent -- but you already knew that. No harm and no foul is intended towards you in any way. :-)
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
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  9. #8
    Steve Levicoff is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by me again View Post
    Do you present your opinion here, based on your years of experiencing in presenting probable cause affidavits to prosecutors for their consideration? Or are you simply making an educated guess, although you have no personal experience, nor educational specialization in the area of expertise that you are referring to?
    Me again, I’m disappointed in you – you’re reaching for the bottom of the barrel here, and are hardly able to get out of that barrel. But, to answer your questions:

    I am presenting an expert opinion, based on an M.A. in theology and law and a Ph.D. in religion and law. Have I had significant experience in the art of legal research? As you buddy Sarah Palin would say, you betcha.

    One thing I know is that the regulations should be interpreted by the regulations themselves. Absent the ability to do that, we go to what various courts have said about the regulations.

    My god, me again, I hope you’re not doing what you have done here in your program at Franciscan U. You might find that they will not tolerate that kind of nonsense, if only based on general principles of research and citation.

    As for probable cause affidavits, I neither have experience nor interest in that end of the law. I do, however, have extensive experience in legislative testimony, and have enjoyed significant success in killing bad bills and fostering the passage of good ones. But that was all once upon a time, and I’m much more content being a happy-go-lucky twucker [sic].

    One thing we do not do is change the headline in the regulations and drop phrases without using ellipsis marks, as you have done in your alleged quote. You end up fostering an argument that does not appear in the original text, and it’s far too easy to call you on B.S. (Not to mention your ending your argument with a preposition. Call me a stickler for good writing skills – you may find that your own professors will hold you to the same high standard.)

    And to answer your query about studies at Franciscan University at Steubenville -- the studies are extremely difficult, as well as overwhelming. It is frankly a struggle to stay afloat. Still struggling and trying, but have not quit... yet... only with God's help will graduation occur. Time will tell. God knows, but this writer does not! It's hard. So hard. Anyone who is looking for an academically easy degree should stay away. Word to the wise. Conversely, it deals with issues that have eternally rock-solid consequences... so it's vitally important.
    Just think, if you were to devote the additional time to your studies as you devote to instigating here at D.I., you might find yourself doing better in that program.

    Understood. Conversely, Dr. Levicoff, as polar opposites, would that make you:

    An alt.left (insert it here)?

    Things are what they are, but they don't have to remain that way. In all seriousness, you are very special, gifted and intelligent -- but you already knew that. No harm and no foul is intended towards you in any way. :-)
    No, you do not know enough about my political positions to label me as alt.left or alt.right (or, for that matter, alt.middle-of-the-bird). No one does, because I have a strict policy of never discussing politics. Things like that bore the shit out of me. As I have mentioned here in the past, I also never discuss race, religion, sex, or sports. If that’s what floats your boat, so be it. I prefer to stay on land myself.

  10. #9
    heirophant is offline Registered User
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    18 USC 2385 does seem to potentially make what Ms. Chapelle-Nadal said a felony.

    Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States... by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government... Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both...

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385

    The applicable parts of that code section are as Me Again quoted them. I do think that Me Again should have included the ellipsis to indicate where less relevant text was snipped out, but including it doesn't seem to change the meaning or the applicability of the section.

  11. #10
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Senator Chappelle-Nadal is toast, as far as her political career goes. If she doesn't resign, she'll be removed from office, and depending on Missouri law, may then be prohibited from holding another elected office.

    I seriously doubt that any criminal prosecution will result, mostly because the US Attorney will view her removal from office as punishment enough. However, there is more than enough probable cause that she violated 18 USC 2385. If I were her, I'd quietly resign and hope the voters have short memories (especially when there's ample evidence to support that).
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  12. #11
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Well I've heard that the Devil can quote scripture and anyone can quote the law. None of it means anything if no one does anything about it. A few things are clear. She wrote what she wrote and even if she took it down the next day she hasn't backed away from it. She's unapologetic and says she won't resign. At the same time, we know that Missouri is a red state that voted for Trump. That means that all the committees are led by Republicans. That's the Ethics Committee, the Judiciary Committee and any other committee that might care to take a position on this issue. My guess is that if they want her gone then she'll be gone. Maybe she'll push it into the media. Maybe there will be a trial. In trials there's lots of talk, publicity, evidence, testimony and all that stuff that maybe the Republicans don't want. Maybe they don't like her for other reasons and they'll tolerate the publicity for the outcome. If nothing happens it's only because the Missouri Republicans don't want anything to happen. I don't know if this woman is a smart person who did a stupid thing or if she's just stupid. If she survives this please don't blame the Democrats.

    Lawrence Jones: Criminal Charges for State Senator Who Wants Trump Assassinated | Fox News Insider
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  13. #12
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    Me again, I’m disappointed in you – you’re reaching for the bottom of the barrel here, and are hardly able to get out of that barrel.
    The absolute best beer in the world comes from the bottom of the barrel. Sometimes you have to reach low to get the good stuff!
    https://www.guinness.com/en-us/our-b...ness-original/

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    I am presenting an expert opinion, based on an M.A. in theology and law and a Ph.D. in religion and law. Have I had significant experience in the art of legal research? As your buddy Sarah Palin would say, you betcha.

    One thing I know is that the regulations should be interpreted by the regulations themselves. Absent the ability to do that, we go to what various courts have said about the regulations.
    Where did you get your MA in theology and law from? Also, applying theological law may be quite a bit different from applying federal code or state statutes. Conversely, this writer has never studied or applied theological, religious or canon law.
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  14. #13
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    My god, me again, I hope you’re not doing what you have done here in your program at Franciscan U. You might find that they will not tolerate that kind of nonsense, if only based on general principles of research and citation.
    This writer is a "garden variety student" in the theological field at Franciscan University of Steubenville. Traditional academic citations are used, in conjunction with properly formed ideas. Nails that stick up get hammered down.
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  15. #14
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    As for probable cause affidavits, I neither have experience nor interest in that end of the law.
    As Bruce noted, it's highly unlikely that Ms./Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal will criminally charged, but that doesn't mean she could not be charged, if the political climate pushed hard enough for it. She will not be charged, but again, as Bruce noted, her political career is over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    I do, however, have extensive experience in legislative testimony, and have enjoyed significant success in killing bad bills and fostering the passage of good ones. But that was all once upon a time, and I’m much more content being a happy-go-lucky twucker [sic].

    One thing we do not do is change the headline in the regulations and drop phrases without using ellipsis marks, as you have done in your alleged quote. You end up fostering an argument that does not appear in the original text, and it’s far too easy to call you on B.S. (Not to mention your ending your argument with a preposition. Call me a stickler for good writing skills – you may find that your own professors will hold you to the same high standard.)
    Dr. Levicoff, those are excellent technical points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    Just think, if you were to devote the additional time to your studies as you devote to instigating here at D.I., you might find yourself doing better in that program.
    Dr. Levicoff, this writer has a 4.0 average in that program (miraculously so far). The difficulties and challenges are difficult to describe. Studying Roman Catholic theology is just so different from every other disciplined -- and it takes a major adjustment to switch from secular studies to theological studies. It's difficult.

    But you're write [sic] -- ending certain kinds of thoughts with prepositional phrases is wrong. It's a repeat error of this writer. Drat.
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  17. #15
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levicoff View Post
    No, you do not know enough about my political positions to label me as alt.left or alt.right (or, for that matter, alt.middle-of-the-bird). No one does, because I have a strict policy of never discussing politics. Things like that bore the shit out of me. As I have mentioned here in the past, I also never discuss race, religion, sex, or sports. If that’s what floats your boat, so be it. I prefer to stay on land myself.
    As the years have passed, you have given occasional cues. :-)
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  18. #16
    me again is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    18 USC 2385 does seem to potentially make what Ms. Chapelle-Nadal said a felony.

    Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States... by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government... Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both...

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385

    The applicable parts of that code section are as Me Again quoted them. I do think that Me Again should have included the ellipsis to indicate where less relevant text was snipped out, but including it doesn't seem to change the meaning or the applicability of the section.
    Correct. The general meaning of the code remains the same.

    A case like this is driven more by politics than anything else -- and nothing will legally come of it, except for the end of Ms./Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal political career.

    Most garden variety laws are not enforced because if the police were to enforce every violation, the courts could not handle it and the public would not tolerate it. Look at speeding 5 mph over the limit as an example. Law enforcement discretion is a necessity.
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