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  1. #17
    cookderosa is offline Resident Chef
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life Long Learning View Post
    Why should I be responsible for my debts?
    Exactly, and I'm not a cold-hearted-blankety-blank. Being older than your incurred debt isn't a reason that you shouldn't have to pay.

    I don't think the cautionary tales prevent anyone from borrowing - mainly because everyone feels like an exception. Didn't we once upon a time have a thread here about the largest growing segment of student loan default being senior citizens?

    Guaranteed govt-backed student loans give average people all the rope they need. Like the housing bubble that burst because lenders lent money to everyone - we should expect a similar consequences in student loan borrowing.
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  2. #18
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookderosa View Post
    Exactly, and I'm not a cold-hearted-blankety-blank. Being older than your incurred debt isn't a reason that you shouldn't have to pay.

    I don't think the cautionary tales prevent anyone from borrowing - mainly because everyone feels like an exception. Didn't we once upon a time have a thread here about the largest growing segment of student loan default being senior citizens?

    Guaranteed govt-backed student loans give average people all the rope they need. Like the housing bubble that burst because lenders lent money to everyone - we should expect a similar consequences in student loan borrowing.

    Into the 1960s, you had to be deemed credit worthy to be granted a credit card. I was twice turned down. Having to be credit worthy was ruled discriminatory so the policy changed to what we have now.

  3. #19
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Into the 1960s, you had to be deemed credit worthy to be granted a credit card. I was twice turned down. Having to be credit worthy was ruled discriminatory so the policy changed to what we have now.
    Um, in 2016, you still get turned down for credit cards if your credit score is low.
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  4. #20
    TomE is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    Um, in 2016, you still get turned down for credit cards if your credit score is low.
    Yeah, CC definitely turn people down. However, I think the discriminatory law does apply to some aspects of loan/credit installments, etc. The way around it is to "Approve" just about everyone, although people with low credit probably aren't going to like that 40% interest rate!

  5. #21
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    The way around it is not to discriminate, which has historically been a problem in lending, and not just ancient history .
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  7. #22
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Add to that the fact that someone can piss away their resources on fancy cars, jewellery and ridiculous luxury items and have the debts discharged in bankruptcy, whereas the folks we mention here can't get out from under student debt - their own or their dead children's... Well, that's sad -at least I think it is.

    J.
    There is a very good reason why student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. There are two kinds of bankruptcy: balance sheet bankruptcy (your liabilities exceed your assets) and cash flow bankruptcy (your monthly payments exceed your monthly income). Suppose the bank gives you $300,000. You then buy a nice little starter home with the first $100,000, a top of the line Porsche with the second $100,000, and a PhD in History with the third $100,000. If you fail to make your mortgage payments, the bank takes away your nice little starter home and gives it to someone who will pay. If you fail to make your car payments, the bank will come to your house and drive away with your Porsche and give it to someone who will pay. If you don't make your student loan payments, the bank has no asset that they can sieze from you in satisfaction for your debts. The home loan and the car loan are both secured debts (you have something that can be taken away to pay the debt) while the student loan is an unsecured debt (you have nothing that can be taken away to pay the debt). With the home loan and the car loan, you have $100,000 in liabilities and $100,000 in assets ... your balance sheet balances. With student loans, you have $100,000 in liabilities and $0 in assets ... your liabilities exceed your assets; hence, you are bankrupt.
    Theo the Educated Derelict
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  8. #23
    Life Long Learning is offline Registered User
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    Maybe if colleges made kids take personal finance, economics , etc., and not garbage socialized propaganda GEN ED courses university students might not be so debt stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by cookderosa View Post
    Exactly, and I'm not a cold-hearted-blankety-blank. Being older than your incurred debt isn't a reason that you shouldn't have to pay.

    I don't think the cautionary tales prevent anyone from borrowing - mainly because everyone feels like an exception. Didn't we once upon a time have a thread here about the largest growing segment of student loan default being senior citizens?

    Guaranteed govt-backed student loans give average people all the rope they need. Like the housing bubble that burst because lenders lent money to everyone - we should expect a similar consequences in student loan borrowing.

  9. #24
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookderosa View Post
    Being older than your incurred debt isn't a reason that you shouldn't have to pay.
    How can one be older than their incurred debt?
    Theo the Educated Derelict
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    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  10. #25
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Life Long Learning View Post
    Maybe if colleges made kids take personal finance, economics , etc., and not garbage socialized propaganda GEN ED courses university students might not be so debt stupid.
    College seems a bit late, how about requiring personal finance in high school?
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
    MBA, Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993

    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

  11. #26
    jhp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    College seems a bit late, how about requiring personal finance in high school?
    I would not only vote, but pay for this, despite all my kids are out of school. Dave Ramsey has a class that I hear is good for High Schools.

  12. #27
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Virginia has a required personal finance and economics course. My eldest laughed all the way through it, it was a useless joke.
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  13. #28
    Ted Heiks is offline Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    Virginia has a required personal finance and economics course. My eldest laughed all the way through it, it was a useless joke.
    Why is personal finance a useless joke?
    Theo the Educated Derelict
    BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
    MBA, Entrepreneurship, City University of Seattle, 1992
    MBA, Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993

    Politics is made from two words: "poly" meaning "many" and "ticks" meaning "blood-sucking insects."

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  15. #29
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    Why is personal finance a useless joke?
    This particular course, not the subject itself.
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  16. #30
    Life Long Learning is offline Registered User
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    Even better..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    College seems a bit late, how about requiring personal finance in high school?

  17. #31
    Davewill is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    How can one be older than their incurred debt?
    I'm trying to figure out how anyone could be YOUNGER than their incurred debt. I'm comfortably older than all my debts...always have been.

    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Into the 1960s, you had to be deemed credit worthy to be granted a credit card. I was twice turned down. Having to be credit worthy was ruled discriminatory so the policy changed to what we have now.
    Where did you get that idea? The reason people don't get turned down (much) is because the credit card companies have figured out that the cost of writing off debt is cheaper than forgoing the business from all the people with mediocre or no credit. As others have said, people with REALLY bad credit do get turned down. That's why bankruptcy doesn't have as much of a stigma as it used to. People figure the credit companies deserve what they get when they insist on extending credit to people they shouldn't.

    As far as student loan debt goes, I don't think there's a way to tweak the current system...we need to come up with a better system all around. The current system of helping to finance private colleges just encourages tuition inflation. If we're going to publicly fund higher education , then we need to control the costs as well. Which to me means making more of our system public, and saying no to high administrator salaries, expensive sports complexes and buildings. Let the private sector figure out how to fund that stuff (not the public and NOT the students) if they really want it.
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  18. #32
    cookderosa is offline Resident Chef
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Heiks View Post
    College seems a bit late, how about requiring personal finance in high school?
    we start this when are kids are toddlers - I'm not exaggerating, it's true. We teach our kids how to spend, which is entirely different than teaching kids how to save- which is the lame sum total of the personal finance courses I've perused.
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