Trump's failed Baja condo resort left buyers feeling betrayed, angry

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Abner, Jun 27, 2016.

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  1. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

  2. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I'm not a fan of Trump. But I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a successful businessperson whose dealings always looked completely favorable (i.e. I started a company selling widgets. I sold more widgets than anyone. I continue selling widgets and I make billions).

    Deep down in the success story there are often tales of betrayal, creative accounting and liberal usage of bankruptcy proceedings and the occasional clever pirouette around contracts. The only way you get someone "clean" is if you get someone whose success came from the dot com bubble. They made a thing that didn't do much. They were acquired. Now they sit on a pile of money. For people who engage in real business ventures it gets very ugly. Heck, just as a lower level functionary of the corporate machine I can tell you I've had to do things that would look pretty bad in a political campaign. I've fired people the day before Christmas Eve, for example.

    Political candidates are either tainted by the political machine or the corporate machine or, occasionally, both. Every so often we elect an activist. It takes a cycle or two of lobbyists stuffing crab cakes into their faces in first class but eventually they turn into the same sleazes as the people they vowed to reform.
     
  3. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Well, I agree with you some points. There is a price to doing business. I have friends who are "businessmen", so to speak. However, the businessmen I associate with conduct socially responsible business, at least to the best of their ability. Their business dealings don't seemed to be mired in such quagmires. For example, there are plenty of good socially responsible corporations out there, and there are plenty of bad ones out there as well.

    I have a friend on this forum whose name I won't mention. He makes some damn good money. He is good at what he does, and he always seems to turn a buck no matter what the economy is like. But he is socially responsible. He keeps his word, and he pays his workers what he owes them and doesn't stiff them. I guess you could even say it is a moral issue for him. It's just that simple. The do teach social responsibility in B school, but I guess many skip over that part nowadays.
     
  4. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is not possible to make money while being socially responsible. But you tend to make more money when you're a complete douche.

    My brother once worked at a diner. The owner of the diner was cheap. Wages were barely legal. No benefits. Paychecks routinely bounced or were delivered late. The owner, however, traded in his Mercedes for a new one every few years (not a lease). He lived in a very nice house in the nicest part of town. Kids went to a big private school etc.

    He owned one diner that was pretty successful. And he lived well. There's nothing wrong with that. But he lived so well because he treated his employees like crap. Had he not treated his employees like crap he would have still made a good living. But he might have made a "new Subaru every three years" instead of a new Mercedes every year" (the new car smell kept wearing off) sort of existence.

    I think that when you run the socially responsible business and take the slightly lower pay you are probably a bit more involved in the day-to-day. You need to be. It's a matter of survival. Guys like this never came in. He just spent the money that other people made for him. He had enough money to where he didn't have to worry even if sales took a slight dip one month. The socially responsible entrepreneur might not have that luxury.

    So which do you think is more likely to ignore his business for a while to go play politics?

    I'm sure this guy, like Trump, felt like he "made it." Whereas the socially responsible entrepreneur might never actually "make it" even if s/he is making really good money.

    Granted, a lot of that is based upon my personal observations of personalities. It's all opinion. But my point is that, while there are good and qualified business people out there, they are focused on being good and running their businesses. To reach the autopilot phase I think you do need to play dirtier. And only those in the autopilot phase are going to have the bandwidth to take on politics as a hobby.
     
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Maybe there is stuff that I don't know, but I've never heard anything bad about the construction company Gary Johnson founded or the marijuana company for which he was CEO.

    Even if there is something, I'd stake a lot of money that his business dealings have been a lot more ethical than Trump's.
     
  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I think Gary is pretty cool actually. Plus, I like how he wears tennis shoes with his suits, that is sweet! I am still kind of amazed that a few people still seem to have a problem with legal herbal. I mean, it's a drug just like any of the opiates are drugs. What's the difference? Might as well tax it.
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Even more, it's not like any other. Opiates are dangerously addictive. Marijuana is not. It's safer than aspirin.
     
  8. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I hear what you are saying. I guess enough, isn't enough for some people. I mean, there are good companies out there that practice social responsibility like Tesla, Ben & Jerry's and several others. They are still out there, and they still manage to be profitable. Now, my businessman friend (from this forum) owns several homes in different states, and does VERY well. He is just a fair guy. The social responsible company is a good business model, because people like to shop at places like that, it makes them feel good about buying the products. They are good neighbors, if you will. Is my friend as rich as Trump, no, and he probably doesn't feel the need to be that rich, he is rich enough. Actually, my friend made me a very generous offer, but it's just not what I am looking for at this point in my life. :smile:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2016
  9. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I'm not going to try and dig up dirt on Gary Johnson or his company. I don't know how ethical he is in his business dealings. But there are a lot of occasions where even good companies with solid reputations do things that come off as unethical.

    When Hurricane Sandy was approaching New York my mother was freaking out. She was greatly concerned that her insurance company would reject her claim, if she incurred any damages, just like they did during Katrina.

    A few things to note:

    1. My mother is a lawyer. If you sat her down and had her review these cases I'm positive that she would understand why she had little to fear.

    2. My mother is a human being who, like all human beings, is affected by marketing and other attempts to guide her behavior.

    The bulk of the lawsuits involving Katrina claims revolved around insurers who refused to pay claims where homes were damaged or destroyed by flood due to the levees failing. HO insurance does not cover flood damage. Ever. And HO only covers wind damage if you have the type of policy which includes that coverage.

    The media made it out to be a horrible travesty and a case of greedy insurance companies refusing to honor their contracts. In reality, people received the coverage they paid for and were mad that the coverage they voluntary chose did not protect them as they thought.

    Did State Farm and Nationwide behave unethically? In the eyes of many they did. If public perception is our barometer for ethical behavior (and under some ethical systems it absolutely is) then State Farm is a terribly unethical company because people didn't get what they thought they were entitled to.

    I just refuse to say that something like this condo resort was an "ethical" issue just because the media tells me that peoples' feelings were hurt. People routinely make risky financial decisions and then cry about it when it goes south. Is that the case here? No idea. But the one sided media opinion isn't enough information to cause me to jump to any particular conclusion.

    Lastly, let me just say that this is a both sides of the aisle thing. I think Trump University is a stupid distraction. I think the same of the Benghazi hearings. Issues that are light on actual facts are, to me, not issues I wish to get worked up about no matter how loudly they talk about them on the "news."
     

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