A Sikh-American Soldier Won the Right to Serve with His Beard, Long Hair and Turban

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sikh-american-soldier-won-serve-141406111.html

"While Signh serves with his accommodation, the Army will conduct periodic check-ins to ensure the accommodations don't interfere with troop morale or Singh's safety. Before 1974, Sikhs were allowed to serve in the armed forces with religious articles intact".

I get the safety part, but I don't get the "interfere wtih troop morale statement".

 

Did you see the camo turban? How cool is that?

The troop morale thing is (a) overblown, (b) shouldn't be catered to, and (c) encourages discrimination.

 

Just wondering about gas mask? Is that just a Hollywood thing or do those guys have to wear them? If so how can he put one on? Its a moral thing because from what I understand from my brother military life is about conformity. Everyone looks alike, glasses, hair cut and mustaches etc.

 

P.s. What about a helmet? Don't soldiers need to be able to wear helmets?

 

Well according to the article: "before 1974, Sikhs were allowed to serve in the armed forces with religious articles intact". If it seemed to work out then, I don't see why it can't work out now. I am sure this Captain/holy man has earned the respect of his fellow soldiers by not only serving, but serving in combat.

 

Uh....no, no, and no.

 

I'm just speaking from a career of experience, that's all. But I guess there are other ways of knowing, right?

 

U.S. Special Forces operating in Afghanistan and Iraq have been sporting beards and somewhat longer than normal hair for a number of years now. I can, however, see some practical military problems that could arise that some in this thread have already mentioned such as wearing gas masks (must have a good seal around the mouth), helmets, and so forth. I'm not sure what the answer is with this. I do not believe it's an issue of discrimination though.

 

The gas mask seal isn't as big of an issue as some make it out to be. Some people can't get a good seal if they have really poorly groomed facial hair. The issue is actually around the neckline. If you have one of those beards that merges into your chest hair then you might not get a tight seal. If it's trimmed then you likely won't.

You'll notice from articles about Capt. Singh that he was required to undergo numerous gas mask screenings where they checked the seal with his beard. He's clearly very dedicated to remaining with the army, his request really isn't that unreasonable and he's willing to meet the Army half way on this. He isn't just demanding the Army conform to his requests he's willing to flex a bit as well. So this was a good decision and it will benefit both parties.

To Rich's point, the troop morale argument is bogus. It was used to justify DADT and, before that, the policy of "We're going to ask." Even before DADT was eliminated there were a fair number of people who were "out" in the Navy and it didn't impact morale at all. And the Navy shares closer accommodations, particularly in showers, than is typical in the other branches.

 

The biggest problem that I see with Sikh religious peculiarities are the daggers that Sikh religious law requires all male Sikhs to carry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan

Some of these things are nasty and could be quite deadly.

It creates obvious problems when they are worn through airport security or when boys wear them at school.

And it creates problems of fairness and raises 'establishment of religion' questions when members of a particular favored religion are allowed to legally carry concealed deadly weapons when other people aren't.

 

I have seen this argument before. I would recommend researching the issue before formulating an opinion. There is no size requirement and there is no requirement that the weapon be sharp. Er go, it's the rough equivalent of carrying around a dull pocket knife or possibly a cut-off butter knife. Some of them, like the one pictured in my link, are more decorative than weapon and are no more "deadly" than a pen.

 

I don't believe that there were any factual errors in what I wrote. I said "some of these things are nasty and could be quite deadly". That's hard to argue with:

Click Here for many images of the things from Wikipedia.

In that particular instance, it might be true. I've heard of kirpans being fixed in their scabbards, so that they can't be withdrawn. But it isn't clear how common that is. If you go looking for kirpans for sale on the internet, most of them look like dangerous weapons to me. Certainly the kind of thing that the rest of us could be arrested for carrying in many places. Kids are routinely expelled from school for carrying much smaller pocket knives.

 

The error in what you said was implying that Sikhs are obligated to carry a "deadly weapon." They are not. They are required to carry a kirpan which can be entirely decorative and not at all dangerous.

I know of very few instances where you can be arrested for carrying a fixed blade knife under 3" in length. Fewer if the knife itself has a dull tip, is the size of a credit card and looks like a fancy letter opener.

I never said that there weren't kirpans that are, in fact, sharp knives. I merely said that the requirement is that you carry a kirpan not that you carry a large, sharp kirpan.



In particular, you raised two major issues:

Well, they aren't allowed through airport security. They are still not allowed on planes.

So you're OK with the girls wearing them? Because women carry them as well.

In every case I've found on the internet where a student was allowed to carry a kirpan to school the student was required to keep the item under their clothing. If they take the kirpan out then the accommodation is void and they are dealt with for a weapons violation.

But, considering there have been exactly zero incidents involving a Sikh using a kirpan as a weapon to harm students in a U.S., Canadian or UK school I think you can pretty much call this a non-issue.

 

Canada's new Minister of National Defence, the Hon. Harjit Sajjan was a Lt. Col. in the Canadian Army - the highest-ranking Sikh in the Canadian military forces. Kirpans, turbans etc. - generally not an issue here. Lots of Sikhs hereabouts. Many like hockey - we've had Punjabi hockey broadcasts for years... and a number have done well in Federal and Provincial politics.

Harjit Sajjan: Meet Canada's new 'badass' defence minister - British Columbia - CBC News

J.

 

Three goals = turban trick? Sounds good to me!

 

There sure are, like actually serving in a combat zone in close quarters, when sometimes morale, tradition, and pride in same are among the few things that keep you going.

With all due respect for your service, those who drive a desk during wartime just don't understand that dynamic. Social engineering has no place in the armed forces.

 

Yes, three players with Punjabi roots have played or are playing in the NHL, Rich. Here's Jujhar Khaira of the Edmonton Oilers. Oilers
They mention the Punjabi hockey broadcasts, as I did. Khaira is the third player with Punjabi roots so far. The first two such NHL players were Manny Malhotra and Robin Bawa.

This is pretty unfamiliar territory to me. I don't understand hockey - and I don't drink beer. I also don't care for maple syrup, back bacon or poutine. Hmph! :sad: Some Canadian I am - but the rest tolerate me anyway. That's just one of the things that are so great about Canada! :smile:

J.

 

But I almost signed up for an evening course in Punjabi at the local Uni. However, I was already working on both writing and business programs there and ended up taking required subjects - poetry-writing and accounting. Strange combo, but the opposites made it a very enjoyable and rewarding semester. :smile:

Never got back to study Punjabi, though. Have to see if they still offer it...

J.

 

You've done these things? Very interesting.

I did serve as a commander in Korea. Just 600 men and women. It was only 900 at Nellis. No one shooting at us, but hardly "driving a desk."

As for social engineering, the military has a long history of leading the way on many social issues. Accommodating religious practices has been one for a very long time. The Air Force has accommodated Sikhs for a long time. Heck, we even have churches on base where Christians worship.

Accommodating religion in the military is both old news and routine.