There have been over 48 hours of silence since: 1. A post regarding an online Potchefstroom Ph.D. thesis. 2. Nearly 2000 views. 3. Over 150 responses: pro and con. Ironically, nothing substantive has changed. Potchefstroom, a 132 year old brick-n-mortar university, still: 1. Has over 15,000 students. 2. Has over 618 support staff and 476 academic faculty. 3. Meets GAAP criteria. 4. Has the recognition of a US RA school, according to AACRAO. 5. Has alumni who serve globally in various fields of expertise. 6. Boasts a South African President (FW de Klerk) as an alumnus and former chancellor. 7. Maintains an excellent theology faculty. And the writer of the online thesis is still a Ph.D. !!! Such is the world of academe.
In the immortal words of my UCR dissertation director: "Craig, a dissertation don't have to be good...it just has to be." When all the dust has settled perhaps less than five percent of dissertations are ever actually published (as a book), and then usually only after extensive revision. Some smart people can mine an article or two out of one. Perhaps less than .5 percent actually contribute anything authentically groundbreaking to their field of study. And despite all the noise about Rick's dissertation, 90% of RA/GAAP, DAI listed dissertations are virtually unreadable. 50% of the (Yes, GAAP/RA) dissertations I have seen are just a few steps shy of out and out plagiarism. I don't know which category Rick's fall in, but it doesn't really matter. Another UCR professor to me: "An actor needs a SAG card, a builder needs a permit, and if you want to teach, you need a Ph.D." Russell is absolutely right--it's still Rick Walston, Ph.D. all day long. At least we know our dissertations won't have to be that great!
In the FWIW department: I'm trying to kick butt on mine, mainly because I intend to get the thing published by a university press when I'm finished and I want it to be ready to go out the door. Everything I've seen on Russell's tells me that his standards are also very high. And Rick's may very well be as well--here again, I thought his dissertation looked fine. Cheers,
And, of course, the recent online spat is of no consequence to the people of Potchefstroom. The buzz in Potchefstroom is about the women's international hockey match that pits South Africa versus England in Potchefstroom on May 21. (That's field hockey -- not the weird version of the game played here.)
Russell: My "contribution" to Part One had no intent to attack Walston or Potch. That dissertation could have been by anyone from any school. My congratulations to any who completes and gets approved a dissertation which in the introduction claims to use the historical-grammatical (ie Greek grammar) research method and then makes no recourse to the tools required to use that method,and who despite the requisite of such as S. Joseph Levine, PhD, Michigan State University , p.7(www.learnerassociate.net/dissthes/) ,who supervises doctoral students, does not thoroughly connect the dissertation to prior research and who is allowed the convenience of writing dissertations on somewhat the same subject three times, and who himself perceives his dissertation to be in New Testament (might I remind all the NT was originally in Greek and even the MDiv (ATS) requires several years of Greek) but who is ably defended by friends who say, "not so" it rather was in Theology! Congratulations, yes! Envy, absolutely not!! EXCEPT, I envy Rick's "prosopon" which rallies defenders even when he , himself, is not attacked but rather the discussion (at least on my part) was: How should a dissertation which attempts to interpret and apply passages in the NT be written.??
Re: Re: Potchefstroom Online Ph.D. Thesis: Part Two This is indeed a correct deduction. Critical dialogue within the academy is a given, no one is exempt (nor should be) from critique by peers. Hypothetically, one could find two different doctoral committees at the same institution---one may pass a dissertation, the other may not. My post is not a defense of Ric Walston or his thesis as I do not hold a Ph.D. in New Testament, and am therefore not qualified to render a professional critique. Rather, it is in reference to the moment when the dust settles, all is said and done, everyone has vented and few have changed their position. At that moment, Potch (or any other legitimate school) remains a solid institution and the person awarded the degree remains a Ph.D. Plain and simple.
Sorry, now can't get the cited website to work. go to:S. Joseph Levine then to his "Writing and Presenting Your Thesis or Dissertation."
Bill, Not to nitpick, but I don't see anything in the ATS standards for the M.Div. which requires "several years of Greek." See http://www.ats.edu/accredit/aca.htm My ATS & RA alma mater required only one year of Greek. My denominational ATS & RA seminary does not require any Biblical languages. One could rightly question how well trained its graduates are to relate the Bible to life, but then I doubt many of its graduates even believe the Bible is relevant at all to life. Craig
Hi Craig, No you are correct to straighten me out. I took Greek grammar in the BA, ThB and some exegesis in the MA. Western requires three courses in Greek even in its MA in Exegetical Theology.You will see more language use in those" lowly" Ma theses than in some PhD dissertations, I am learning! The MDiv has those and two in Hebrew. The ThM requires such as prerequisites to admittance. Western feels at the grad level writing in both Biblical and Theological areas should be based on insights provided by exegesis in the original languages. I falsely assumed Western's requirements were ATS driven.Sorry for my error,
Gert, Are you sure that PUCHE did not call an emergency session of their senate to debate giving the theology department a good solid thrashing? Your remark about hockey reminded me of my English grandmother's feelings about baseball. She noted that it was a girls game in England (called rounders I believe). North
Bill, Yes, it sounds like Western has a excellent program for instilling academic rigor into its students. And, to be sure, Th.M. and other higher degrees oftentimes require the Biblical languages. For a M.Div., I cannot understand training ministers without giving them at least rudimentary training in the languages of the Bible. I suspect that the more theologically liberal the school, the less emphasis given to original languages. ATS requirements seem very general, with much leeway for schools to emphasize in some areas (at least from what its website indicates). I agree that an examination of a New Testament passage for academic work would include at least some work in Greek. With all the helps available these days, even someone relatively unschooled can uncover current studies of just about any passage you care to name. Craig
Craig My bet is that in many cases whatever Heb/Grk is required of MDiv students is soon lost and felt less than vital to the demands of the ministry. I recall a time when a pastor was laboring over the delivery of a "Biblical" message on Baptism based on the nebulous rendering of Jo 4:2 in the KJV. His last point was that even Jesus , Himself, baptised His disciples. As I had my Greek text in church that day, I pointed out to the pastor later in my normally humble (?) manner that as the noun for disciples was in the nominative, that therefore they could not be the object. They must be the subject of that sentence. The pastor replied that his commentaries agreed with his position! So, this is a poor example to prove your point . It your point, nevertheless, is valid that there are many good helps available to understand Scripture. I would only say that the further one advances in study, the more helpful linguistics becomes. Friends again? Bill
Don't blame us. I think that the Canadians invented ice hocky because they couldn't face watching any more curling on the CBC. (Sorry... I'm just bitter because my Sharks got eliminated from the NHL playoffs.) I have to admit it, though. I can't resist the toothless, broken-nosed charms of those South African women's hocky goalies. (How can they skate across a field? Do they slide on cow patties?)
Language, math, and computer requirements that often look so formidible in Ph.D. program catalog requirements are sometimes in reality pretty easy to meet. I was able to get "Italian" based on two years of high school Latin and an undergrad course in Dante. The course (I mean the text-The Comedia) was supposedly taught in Italian, but it was a dual language edition. For my Old English exams, I was pretty sure I knew that it would involve translating a familiar passage or short poem--It was the Dream of the Rood, certainly the easiest OE text, plus I could have my dictionary. No big deal. I have always felt--and I know many might disagree--that languages are not very useful in academics unless one has honestly near native fluency. Interesting thread. Craig
Bill, We never were not friends! We just had a vigorous disagreement. My meaning was the linguistic helps. There is so much more available to aid the pastor or student than even 25 years ago, and so much on CD-ROM, as well. I'll admit that my Greek and Hebrew is quite rusty--but I never downplay the importance of them. The number of good commentaries with a better linguistic background is also growing. Finally, even a knucklehead (like me) can get by with a NASB! Craig
