Walston's Potch Dissertation Online

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by BLD, May 10, 2002.

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  1. BLD

    BLD New Member

    Hi All,
    Thought this might be helpful for those wondering what type/level of work is required. Here's the link:CLICK HERE
     
  2. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Dissertation topic: already been done!

    After looking over the introduction, I had some disappointment. I could see no road not well traveled before and no question not the precise subject of endless past opining. Further, in Rick's case, as a Pentecostal pastor, to write on tongues seems a stale and sterile exercise. Possibly there is nothing new under the sun, but there are new arrangements of and approaches to issues which can be made. The first comment by Pitcher's at Unizul re my suggested topic area was "it is already well grazed." He insists I show him the newness of my approach. Even for the ThM thesis, Cook discouraged an argument against Arminianism saying, "Seems to me that's already been done!"

    But maybe were one to read the whole 110,000 words, 400 pages as Rick cautions, then one could find new questions, arguments, insights.
     
  3. Ed Komoszewski

    Ed Komoszewski New Member

    According to Dr. Walston's curriculum vita, his PhD from Potchefstroom was in New Testament studies. In my personal opinion, judging by typical standards for a PhD in this field, the bibliography was underwhelming.

    This is especially evident with regard to the absence of standard exegetical tools used in New Testament dissertations. For example, there is not a single standard grammar (e.g., Blass-DeBrunner-Funk, Moulton-Howard-Turner, Wallace, Young, Zerwick) listed in the bibliography. Nor are any standard lexicons (e.g., Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrich, Liddell-Scott, Louw-Nida, Moulton-Milligan) listed. Though Walston has cited a few solid New Testament commentaries (e.g., Barrett [1 Cor.], Bruce [NICNT on Acts], Carson, Fee), many standard critical commentaries which should have been consulted are missing (e.g., Barrett [Acts], Bruce [Greek text of Acts], L. T. Johnson, Witherington).

    The few Greek reference tools listed are suspect. Walston cites an abridged version of Granville (incorrectly spelled, 'Grandville' in the bibliography) Sharp's remarks on the use of the Greek article. The definitive work on Sharp's rule, however, is Daniel B. Wallace's 1995 PhD dissertation on the topic (available through UMI and soon to be published by Peter Lang). Wallace also has a lengthy discussion of Sharp's rule in his Greek grammar published by Zondervan in 1996. Walston cites works by Wuest and Vine, but they are severely outdated, and better suited to those without proficiency in Greek.

    Other noted deficiencies are a lack of significant interaction with periodicals, theses, and dissertations. This might have been avoided if a standard review of literature was included in the dissertation. In addition, works vital to a complete treatment of this topic (e.g., Turner, Grudem, Keener, Ruthven, Schatzmann) are conspicuously absent.

    There are also some works which do not merit attention in a New Testament PhD dissertation. For example, though I have profound respect for the pastoral and leadership savvy of Charles Swindoll, his guide to spiritual gifts is not the stuff New Testament scholarship is made of. The same could be said for works by Charles Stanley, Billy Graham, and Max Anders (all cited in Walston's bibliography).

    Please understand that I am not suggesting Dr. Walston didn't work his backside off in writing his dissertation, or make a valuable contribution to the study of his topic. I in no way wish to undermine his efforts or question his abilities. I'm just a bit disappointed that his PhD was awarded in the field of New Testament studies, since the dissertation seems more appropriate for a DMin or PhD in practical theology.

    In light of the fact that this dissertation wouldn't pass for a PhD in New Testament at stateside schools like Dallas Theological Seminary, Westminster Theological Seminary, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, etc., I sincerely ask, What does this say about Potchefstroom?
     
  4. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!

    For anyone who has ever taught at a regionally/ATS-accredited seminary, readings Ed's critique of Rick's dissertation is tremendously hysterical - and right on point. A dissertation on tongues? There are at least hundreds, if not thousands, of writers who can say, "Been there, done that."

    What I find more amusing, however, is that if you surf from the main page of Columbia Evangelical Seminary, you will find a page called "Dr. Walston's VIrtual Office Wall" which includes pictures of all of his diplomas and certificates (including his degree mill credential from Bethany). I have never seen this type of page on the web site of any legitimate college, university, or seminary.

    I called Columbia a degree mill as early as when he started it and called it Faraston Theological Seminary. My opinion has not changed. You can find pictures of Rick's little "one-room schoolhouse" at this link.
     
  5. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    it's Greek to whom?

    Ed

    I don't see how you can be so critical of Rick's usage of the Greek references;after all, I see Vine's "Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words "listed (hee, hee).

    On the other hand, Rick therein says he wants the study to be "practical and understandable, not a lofty piece of research."
    Possibly this has been accomplished!::D
     
  6. Ed Komoszewski

    Ed Komoszewski New Member

    Re: it's Greek to whom?

    And I would be the first to say that there is a legitimate need for that type of work. But we can't go handing out PhDs in New Testament for it.

    I believe it was you, Bill, who referenced Jim Sawyer (a fellow whom I know and respect immensely) in a previous thread, noting his disdain for degree mills that undermine the legitimate credentials of folks like himself who earned a research doctorate through much toil. Though Potchefstroom is a legitimate school, its awarding of a PhD in New Testament for a dissertation better suited to the DMin is off-putting to people like myself who are working toward the former credential.
     
  7. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    I'd like to remind you folks that the actual degree nomenclature relevant to GST/Potch is the Ph.D. in Theology--not the Ph.D. in New Testament Studies. Unless Rick set up an unusual arrangement with a specific Potch faculty, it should be judged as a theology dissertation--and by those standards, it looks just fine to me.


    Cheers,
     
  8. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    not worth the price.

    Ed

    I agree with you. Recently I did a paper (as in one of three "term papers") which has over 100 bibliographic listings of articles in the standard lexica , grammars (including Wallace-and Robertsom whom I don't think you mentioned), and assorted theological journals. This paper was done for an unaccredited school. It was about 1/5 the work for one class not a thesis! Not a dissertation!

    Now in assembling the literature for a review in anticipating writing a proposal for research on the issue of the Son's relational subordination and the possible perimeters of that established by cognate doctrines, I already have located and copied about 70 journal articles in a dozen publications.

    Even though this is to be in Systematic Theology not NT, how could one avoid lexical studies on such as "monogenes", "ousia" and so forth. How can one cite the grammatical-historical hermeneutic as a method (as Walston does) , but not heavily use the exegetical tools?

    I agree ;this dissertation were it in NT and for a PhD in that discipline is a stumbling block for those wishing to keep religious studies scrupulously academically respectable. Of course it has value ;the price of it however is not a PHD in NT!:(
     
  9. Ed Komoszewski

    Ed Komoszewski New Member

    I'm merely going by Dr. Walston's curriculum vita located here: www.columbiaseminary.org/Prez.htm.

    I guess, Tom, that we'd have to agree to disagree that Dr. Walston's Potchefstroom dissertation meets the standards for a theology degree. Whether the field be Old Testament studies, New Testament studies, or theological studies, I can assure you that no regionally and/or professionally accredited theological school would accept that as a PhD dissertation.

    Notwithstanding my comments about the nature of a New Testament dissertation, the bibliography is far too slim for anything related to biblical and/or theological studies. In addition, there are no modern research languages represented in the work, and in the case of Dr. Walston's topic, I know for a fact that relevant works in German and French exist. If a definitive, applicable work in one of those research languages exists, it simply cannot be overlooked.

    Now, if you were to argue that Dr. Walston's dissertation was suitable for a degree in practical theology, you might have a point (I would be more inclined to accept the dissertation for the DMin). But the nomenclature "practical theology" means something entirely different than "theology" in academic circles.

    Incidentally, Dr. Walston's advisor, Dr. Fika J. van Rensburg, is a professor of New Testament and director of the School of Biblical Studies and Biblical Languages at Potchefstroom. He is not included in any of the faculty listed under the School of Ecclesiastical Sciences, which handles theological studies at the university. If Dr. Walston's degree is in fact in theology, then shouldn't we expect to see one of the theology professors listed as his advisor?
     
  10. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    looks fine

    Tom

    Makes no difference. Whether the degree was in NT or in Theology, it lacks much! I should really read it in its entirety before being that conclusive. But The introduction and the bibliography are themselves telling much. You do not write in NT Testament or in Systematics without using the original languages at the doctoral level.....unless, of course, you are KJV only.

    The complexities inherent within the tongues issue much relate to Greek grammar. (I'd be happy to demonstrate) To suppose they can be addressed at the PhD level without such recourse is naive. I much respect you, and Rick too, but here disagree.
     
  11. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    I must add that I too am a bit skeptical toward the things being reported here. My skepticism relates primarily to the following:

    The title of Dr. Walston's PUCHE dissertation:

    THE MANIFESTATIONS OF THE SPIRIT IN 1 CORINTHIANS 12 WITH SPECIAL EMPHASIS UPON TONGUES AS EVIDENCE.

    The title of Dr. Walston's Greenwich University dissertation:

    I CORINTHIANS 12--THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT

    His DMin dissertation also dealt with the Romans 12 teachings about the spiritual gifts.

    I guess I'd be interested to see precisely how much these three submissions differ from one another in content.

    Cory Seibel
     
  12. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    AND NEXT....

    a ThD awarded for the dissertation "Glossolalia: A Comparison of the Experiences in Corinth, Jerusalem, Ephesus, and Caesarea."
     
  13. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    Ed,

    I think that you are right on track in your observations here. Even within the field of Practical Theology (my native field), the standards are high. As in other disciplines, a slim bibliography simply won't cut it. Where appropriate, familiarity with German or Spanish (etc.) resources is essential. Furthermore, even in a Practical Theology PhD, the work of Swindoll, Stanley, and the like does not really have a place. That's not to say that these men haven't produced materials of practical value. They simply haven't produced anything appropriate to the level of scholarship PhD students should be employing in their research.

    Cory Seibel
     
  14. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    I count approximately 126 sources in Dr. Walston's bibliography. This is around the number of resources I am employing in the preparation of my MTh dissertation.

    Furthermore, compare this to approximately 450 sources in the bibliography of John Sanders' University of South Africa dissertation (published as "The God Who Risks: a Theology of Providence; InterVarsity Press, 1998).
     
  15. Craig

    Craig New Member

    Several points:

    I would venture to say that there are dissertations on the shelves at Dallas, Westminster, and TEDS which would certainly raise questions similar to the ones raise in this thread. When perusing master's and D.Min. theses at nearby RA institutions, I am positively amazed at the minimal level that some exhibit.

    As several works on the Ph.D. process point out, the Ph.D. (or any upper level thesis), the dissertation does not have to be earthshaking. One only has to make an original contribution to knowledge. Rick's thesis, though on a well covered topic, is in an arrangement and from a perspective which is unique to him.

    Many theses, though publishable in theory, are never seen again (at least without significant revision for publication).

    Sometimes promoters/advisors are assigned as they are available. In an institution such as Potch, I suspect they may receive assignments not necessarily directly in their fields. Further, Rick had three promoters who oversaw his work.

    Potchefstroom may well have suggested that he further refine his previous dissertations instead of taking on a whole new subject.

    While agreeing somewhat with the criticism of the sources referenced, with Rick's approach, I would be disappointed if there were not some interaction with popular theology as evidenced by Swindoll, Stanley, and others.

    Finally, number of sources consulted does not necessarily show relevance or work involved or even validity of approach. The Evangelical Theological Society has weighed Sanders' argument of his doctoral thesis, and found it wanting.

    Craig
     
  16. Ed Komoszewski

    Ed Komoszewski New Member

    Excellent point, Cory.

    I certainly did not intend to imply that a research doctorate in practical theology is not rigorous; one merely doesn't expect to see the majority of work dealing with critical exegesis of the biblical text since that's not its primary intent. I agree with your comments above, and that's why I was careful in saying Dr. Walston's dissertation might be submitted for a practical theology degree (I'm trying to be both objective and gracious). As I said in a previous post, I think it's more along the lines of DMin work.

    I hope others here will note that I'm not entirely discounting Dr. Walston's work (regardless of whether or not I agree with his conclusions). I'm sure he worked hard on this project, and it may be of significant value outside the sphere of academic research at the doctoral level.
     
  17. Ed Komoszewski

    Ed Komoszewski New Member

    Perhaps in years gone by, but not recently. In fact, I just spoke with a prominent professor at Dallas Theological Seminary who said he's already rejected three New Testament dissertations this year (written by students who had already passed rigorous entrance and exit exams). I'd be surprised if you found a PhD dissertation in Old or New Testament studies written at DTS over the last decade that is severely wanting.
     
  18. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Craig

    As you have experienced my criticism can be too biting. However, while you have a good point that the number of bibliographic listings only in Rick's dissertation cannot measure it's level of scholarship, the nature of these certainly can! As I understand the questions and the title of this work it seeks at a PhD level to interpret NT passages. This cannot be done without Greek exegesis and that discipline requires specific types of tools NOT listed in Rick's bibliography.
     
  19. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    I just bookmarked it and I'll read it and will get back with you.

    Thanks!
     
  20. CLSeibel

    CLSeibel Member

    Hey, Craig, perhaps I am being a tad strong in my view of the appropriateness of citing sources like Stanley and Swindoll in doctoral level work. Perhaps if they've contributed some significant "popular" notions that come to bear on the way a theological discussion has come to be framed, they could have a place. However, apart from this, they simply don't constitute "sources" to be drawn upon in the same way as more serious scholarly works. Is it valid for me to gain a doctorate through interacting with sources that are little more than manuscripts of the sermons my grandma listens to while working in the kitchen?

    Craig, by pointing to the size of Sanders' bibliography, I don't mean to suggest anything about the validity of his argument or method. Indeed, my own assessment of his views lines up with that of the ETS. I only used his text because it was available close at hand, and because it serves as a fair example of the extent to which doctoral students should be striving to engage with the relevant resources on their subjects. Even at the master's level, I am writing about assimilating Gen Xers in the local church setting. Along the way, I am striving to read virtually every text examining new member assimilation or Gen X culture I can possibly track down. I have a sense of duty to be well-versed in the full spectrum of what has been said about the areas of research I am endeavoring to "master." Furthermore, the examination board will want to see evidence of an advanced level of interaction with the field of relevant resources. I simply find it difficult to believe that Walston has truly achieved this with only 126 sources.

    Craig, I agree with all of your other observations. The dissertations of RA and ATS grads aren't always stellar or revolutionary by any means.

    Cory Seibel
     

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