Saw this article when I opened up my web browser just now. 11 worst public university grad rates - college degrees - MSN Money I'm just throwing this out there, but it seems like these schools have high levels of acceptance. I'm wondering if there's a correlation between schools that accept everyone and their drop out rates. -Matt
The first thing I noticed was the extreme high percentage of students getting Pell Grants. Well over 50% of students at these ten schools were getting Pell Grants. Southern Univ. at New Orleans has 75.8% of students getting Pell Grants and a 4% graduation rate. I would wager that if refunds went back to the taxpayers instead of the "students" you would see drop out rates fall.
According to the US Dept. of Education's National Center for Education Statistics, yes, these factors are correlated: If you want to see this effect for yourself, just get a copy of the US News & World Report College Rankings. The rankings tables list both the acceptance rate and the graduation rate. Start at the top, and you will see that practically every school has a low acceptance rate and a high graduation rate. As you go down through the table, the acceptance rates will generally rise and the graduation rates will generally drop. By the time you reach the bottom, practically every school has a high acceptance rate and a low graduation rate. There are exceptions, of course, but the overall pattern is clear.
I'm no fan of distance learning, but check out this paragraph from the article: "One factor in these disappointing statistics is America's for-profit schools, which have garnered plenty of recent media attention. Such schools are sometimes accused of being "dropout factories" that send students out into the workforce with major debt and few skills. But there are a number of four-year public universities, funded at least in part by taxpayer dollars, that have graduation rates that are just as bad as -- or worse than -- their for-profit counterparts" Then when you click on the top 11 drop out factories, none of them are for profit schools. Excellent writing and research Mr. Briody, well done. **pfffffttttt**
The headline on the story says: 11 Worst Public University Grad Rates. So the list is only supposed to be for non-profit public schools. That's why there are no for-profits on the list.
First school on the list, Southern University at NO: Men full time - 657 Women full time - 1,734 I can tell you why I might not graduate from a school like that. Look at that sex ratio! I'd be too busy gettin busy to study World Civ 101 or show up on time for Adv Stats 302.
It doesn't. The story says nothing about "online" or "distance learning" schools. It does discuss for-profit schools, but makes no distinction between DL and B&M schools. Why bring up for-profits? Presumably because the issue of poor graduation rates at for-profit schools has been all over the news lately. The point of the story seems to be this: 1. There has been a lot of publicity lately about poor graduation rates at for-profit schools (which is true). 2. But in fact, this problem is not confined to for-profit schools (which is also true). Some public schools also have unusually low graduation rates. 3. Here's a list of public schools with poor graduation rates. This doesn't strike me as unreasonable or unfair.
But you comment on a forum focused on distance learning. That's like being a straight male and going to a gay bar and expressing contempt when guys hit on you.
No, it's like a homosexual that went to one of the re-education camps that Churches have and came out "cured". I appear cured on the outside but I still long for my old life of distance learning. 2 of my 5 degree were earned via distance learning so I speak from experience. Should we all be nice little sheep and offer no differing opinion? I may have read too much into the article but it certainly should be discussed further. What are you adding to the discussing besides snark?
I much prefer my analogy-- it's like walking into a biker bar in the Deep South, and yelling "Harley Davidson sucks! Long live Kawasaki!". At which point someone could measure the yeller's remaining lifespan with a stopwatch.
Hmmmmm. Interesting stuff there... Fine, but you can't lose sight of the fact that it's your experience and not a definitive determination for all. I have quite a few diplomas on my wall as well, some earned by distance, some in-person, and I don't share your view. But at the end of the day, I have no desire to try and convince you to change yours or anyone else's for that matter; it would do nothing for me. A person can have whatever opinion they like. But there comes a time when a person becomes a caricature of themselves trying to convince everyone that what they're doing is some sort of evil/mistake/bad idea, etc. I'm not saying you fit that description as I don't know your posting history well enough to make that claim, I'm just speaking on how that generally tends to work. Relax. If you're gonna say "I'm no fan of distance learning...", on a distance learning forum, you can't really be surprised when it's not ignored (or praised).
It stands to reason that open admissions colleges and universities would have higher dropout rates. At more prestigious schools, the weeding out has already been done in the admissions process.
Precisely... so it would seem to me it would be in a school's best interest to be a little more selective. -Matt
Different schools have different missions, and therefore different "best interests". For some schools, their mission is to maximize their reputation and prestige. In that case, it may be in their 'best interest" to be as selective as possible, and to educate only the best students possible. For other schools, their mission is to serve a particular community (maybe a particular city or geographic area, maybe a particular religious group, maybe a particular technical field). In that case, it may be in their "best interest" to educate as many community members as possible, and to have unselective admissions for members of the target group. For other schools, their mission is to maximize profits for their owners or shareholders. In that case, it may be in their "best interest" to accept as many people as possible, and to aggressively market for more. Greater selectivity would hurt, rather than help, their mission; you don't maximize profits by turning potential customers away.
I think the real issues is to many students going to college because its expected who have no business going to a four year school at the time, maybe later on but not right out of High School. As I see it one takes out debt to go to school in most cases and dropping out leaves one the debt with nothing to show for it. While for profits only exist due to need. Either students see a degree as necessary or there is no program they can get into through an accredited channel such as nursing so they go to these schools. The latter is an issue if a student wants to be a nurse and there are no seats they can go to at a convenient school a for profit nearby could be the only option over a standard program. Then they drop out in either case carrying likely a high level of debt over if they went to a community college or other state school.
Another weakness in the drop-out rates is they make no distinction between students who washed out altogether and students who transferred to another school.
While that may be true, it's not in the best interests of the American taxpayers who are financing those students... I just wish more students would realize that there are other options besides paying $100,000 for an AA degree. -Matt
