Why do people think public school teachers don't make much money?

I always hear people say school teachers don't make any money. What if I told you the average public school teacher gets $50,000 in salary, $25,000 in present benefits and $25,000 in future benefits. That's $100,000 per year for working 9-10 months. Would you believe me? I didn't believe it at first.


Wall street Journal article - A typical public school teacher with a salary of $51,000 receives another $51,480 in present or future fringe benefits.
Biggs and Richwine: Public School Teachers Aren't Underpaid - WSJ.com

Similiar article from the Economic Policy Institute
Do public school teachers really receive lavish benefits?: Richwine and Biggs


Wisconsin public school employee pay for the 2010-2011 school year
- Actual data from the State of Wisconsin
- Average salary $49,093 plus $25,750 present benefits totals $74,844
- This does not include future benefits which are estimated from WSJ article to be another $25,000
http://media.journalinteractive.com/documents/Average+Teacher+Salaries+2009-2010+school+year.xls


U.S. Dept. of Labor: Elementary Teachers
- Median salary $48,800
- This does not include present benefits estimated to be $24,000
- This does not include future benefits estimated to be $24,000
Kindergarten and Elementary School Teachers : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics


U.S. Dept. of Labor: High School Teachers
- Median salary $53,230
- This does not include present benefits estimated to be $26,000
- This does not include future benefits estimated to be $26,000
High School Teachers : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics



What started me thinking about this? I met a teacher in my district who laughingly told me he and his wife make $65,000 each as teachers for 7 hours per day (his words) for 9 months per year (his words). That's $100k each per year based on 8 hour days and 12 months per year for just their salary. I was pissed because the district was pushing another school levy so I did some checking with my district. Teacher salaries are open to the public. He was right! He also got an additional $2.5k per year for being an assistant basketball coach! Unbelievable.

Sorry for such a long post, but I needed a break from studying.

 

The link I posted for the State of Wisconsin teachers is kind of cool. It shows low salary, high salary, average salary, average fringe benefits, average local experience (yrs) and average total experience (yrs).

 

Because the notion that teachers are underpaid makes for good propaganda when it comes time to vote on school bond issues.

 

I don't think it's included in any benefits anywhere, but I think teachers can get their public student loan debt forgiven after 10 years as a teacher.

 

Not exactly great money in my opinion:

http://www.broward.k12.fl.us/employeerelations/BTU_PDFs_for_Website/AppendixE_BTU.pdf

Broward County Florida

 

Such a wonderful job "NCTAF’s findings are a clear indication that America’s teacher dropout problem is spiraling out of control. Teacher attrition has grown by 50 percent over the past fifteen years. The national teacher turnover rate has risen to 16.8 percent. In urban schools it is over 20 percent, and, in some schools and districts, the teacher dropout rate is actually higher than the student dropout rate."

High Teacher Turnover Rates are a Big Problem for America’s Public Schools - Forbes

 

I was just showing Wisonsin and then national numbers via BLS. But lets look at Broward County Florida. The lowest salary was $39,000. The fringe benefits are ~19,500. So the lowest pay salary and benefits is $58,500 for 9 months of work. I know it's not an exact comparison, but this is the equivalent of $78,000 salary and benefits for 12 months. A teacher can get an extra $3,650 per year if they have a masters.

Not too shabby and that doesn't include future benefits, student loan forgiveness, etc.

 

I agree. Teachers can take one of the easiest undergrad degree programs, elementary education, and come out making good money with zero experience. The same cannot be said for many other degrees such as biology, history, political science, etc.

 

Please explain the high attrition rate:

Top 5 Reasons Why Teacher Turnover Is Rising

Almost half of teachers leave the field after just five years, according to the National Commission on Teaching and America's Future, and the debate surrounding how to keep teachers in the profession is still evolving.

How many of you saying it is such a great job are public school teachers?

 

This article really doesn't discuss teacher pay. Most of the article seemed common sense and I wouldn't think a study would be needed.

"Already 46% of new teachers leave the profession within five years." - Maybe they found out they didn't like it. Maybe the job was in a high crime area. Maybe they got on at a better school? Maybe they got married and had kids.

 

I don't think its that great of a job. But I do think that it pays more than the average person realizes. The fringe benefits plus the fact that they work 8 hours a day for 9 months of the year is really a nice deal. Teacher pay is quite high for those starting out right after college.
I bet a lot of people leave their careers 5 years into it, once they become mature adults. I have seen plenty of programmers wash out when they realize they just don't like what they do.

 

fired or suspended for perfectly lawful activities

And for the honor of that high salary you are held to a higher moral standard:

Teachers under the morality microscope - Wire - Lifestyle - bellinghamherald.com

Increasingly, however, public school teachers are being fired or suspended for perfectly lawful activities during off-work hours when those activities are deemed inappropriate by parents or school officials.


In Pennsylvania in 2010, an unidentified teacher was suspended after a third party posted a picture on Facebook showing her with a male stripper at a bridal shower.

In Georgia in 2011, teacher Ashley Payne lost a court case challenging her forced resignation in 2009. Her departure came after a parent objected to a photo she posted to Facebook showing her holding a drink while on vacation in Europe. School officials said the posting "promoted alcohol use."

In 2009, Wisconsin teacher Betsy Ramsdale was put on leave for posting a picture of herself looking down the sight of a rifle on her Facebook site.

 

Is this the student loan forgiveness you are referring to?

Stafford Loan Forgiveness Program for Teachers

The Teacher Loan Forgiveness Program is intended to encourage individuals to enter and continue in the teaching profession. Under this program, individuals who teach full time for five consecutive, complete academic years in certain elementary and secondary schools that serve low-income families and meet other qualifications may be eligible for forgiveness of up to a combined total of $17,500 in principal and interest on their FFEL and/or Direct Loan program loans

Student Aid on the Web

No thank you

 

First the HuffingtonPost blog is not a credible source. But ...

Here's the link to the article they are citing (not sure its credible either)
Five Reasons Teacher Turnover Is on the Rise

Not sure if this is pay related, but it's probably pay and conditions
This was in the L.A. Unified school district. Turnover was 15% in the public schools.
I would expect LA to have a high turnover due to crime, gangs, language barriers, etc.

This is not pay related, but job security related
Maybe they should do something about illegals instead of being a self-declared santuary
LA Unified spends $30k per student (holy shit batman)
LAUSD spends $30K per student | CalWatchDog
One third of the 2.6 million illegals in California live in Los Angeles
http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/atissue/AI_711HJAI.pdf

LMFAO. $150k per year not going to happen.
I would expect low wages to be in the top 5 turnover reasons for every job

This is not pay related
I am not a fan of the No child Left Behind. I think states and local govt. should handle education not the fed.
Responsibility for test scores should not be dumped on teachers as they can only do so much
I think parents should be held equally (if not more) accountable for failing test scores.

This is not pay related

 

I don't know a whole lot about student loans since I never had one, but here are some links.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attachments/siteresources/LoanForgivenessv4.pdf
Student Aid on the Web


What federal student loans are eligible for forgiveness under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program?
Any non-defaulted loan made under the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan Program (Direct Loan Program) is eligible for loan forgiveness. (See below for information on how non-Direct Loans may be eligible.) The Direct Loan Program includes the following types of loans–
Federal Direct Stafford/Ford Loans (Direct Subsidized Loans)
Federal Direct Unsubsidized Stafford/Ford Loans (Direct Unsubsidized Loans)
Federal Direct PLUS Loans (Direct PLUS Loans) – for parents and graduate or professional students
Federal Direct Consolidation Loans (Direct Consolidation Loans)

How can other federal student loans qualify for loan forgiveness?
Although loan forgiveness under this program is available only for loans made and repaid under the Direct Loan Program, loans made under other federal student loan programs may qualify for forgiveness if they are consolidated into a Direct Consolidation Loan. However, only payments made on the Direct Consolidation Loan will count toward the required 120 monthly payments.
The following types of loans may be consolidated into the Direct Loan Program –
Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) Program loans, which include –
Subsidized Stafford Loans
Unsubsidized Stafford Loans
Federal PLUS Loans – for parents and graduate or professional students
Federal Consolidation Loans (excluding joint spousal consolidation loans)
Federal Perkins Loans
Certain Health Professions and Nursing Loans

 

Good points. I am guessing the OP is from Wisconsin, and probably has the Walker recall on his mind, though he says this occured to him through a discussion with a friend. I am further guessing (yes, 100% speculation) that this type of thread is aimed at those trying to prevent and end to collective bargaining by alluding to the fact that teachers make GREAT money and should not have collective bargaining along with cops, fire fighters, teacher, nurses, etc. Reports state Wisconsinites are more concerned with the recall of Scott Walker than the presidentials at this point. But as I clearly admit, I could be completely wrong about the OPs motivations. I have not seen him post enough over the years to really get a good feel for him.

Now for the good news, Scott Walker is up for recall election in June 2012, and is presently collecting funds for future legal fees in connection with ethics investigations concerning some shaddy things attributed to him and some of his ex cronies. Can't wait for June!! AY AY AY AY AY AY!!!!!

Have a good one!

Abner :smile:

 

According to Broward County Schools their teachers work a 10 month standard school year. This year they end on June 8 and start up again on Aug 13.

 

Good catch. So the lowest pay salary and benefits is $58,500 for 10 months of work. Then the equivalent 12 month salary and benefits would be $70,200 not $78,000.

Thanks

 

:liar:
Incorrect. I am from Ohio.

:liar:
Incorrect again. I could care less about Wisconsin. No offense to anyone from there, but money spent there doesn't affect me. It was just one of the first Google results that popped up when I was searching.

:liar:
Incorrect yet again. I said nothing about unions.

:liar:
Incorrect yet again. I did not say they make great money.

:iagree:
Holy crap batman ... the first CORRECT statement ... amazing

fftopic:
Please don't hijack this thread. Start another thread.

 

If you look at salary plus benefits the average teacher makes the same or more money in 10 months than these professions make in 12 months. I'm not saying a teacher's job is easier or harder than these and I'm not saying a teacher's job is less or more important.

Teacher - Median salary $53,230 + ~$25,000 benefits (not incl 25k future benefits)

Network Administrators - Median salary $69,160 + ~$10,000 benefits
Chiropractors - Median salary $67,200 + ~$10,000 benefits
Audiologists - Median salary $66,660 + ~$10,000 benefits
Registered Nurses - Median salary $64,690 + ~$10,000 benefits
Landscape Architects - Median salary $62,090 + ~$10,000 benefits
Insurance Underwriters - Median salary $59,290 + ~$10,000 benefits
Public Relations Manager - Median salary $57,550 + ~$10,000 benefits
Surveyors - Median salary $54,880 + ~$10,000 benefits
Dietitians and Nutritionists - Median salary $52,250 + ~$10,000 benefits
Athletic Trainers - Median salary $41,600 + ~$10,000 benefits

Source:
Home : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

* All the professions I posted say the entry level education is a Bachelor’s degree or better and a couple say doctorate or professional degree.