Thread: Arizona conducts criminial investigation on the BATFE and company on Fast and Furious

I cannot think of anything like this happening in recent history , where a state investigates agents of the federal government for violating state penal codes. I know this story will warm Bruce's heart (mine too).

Arizona strikes back: State investigates feds over gun-running - Washington Times

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Originally Posted by friendorfoe

I know this story will warm Bruce's heart (mine too).

Only temporarily.

Arizona is wasting its time and resources; a federal court will assume jurisdiction, invoke the Supremacy Clause, then dismiss everything, and the coverup will continue unabated, unless AZ has the stones to take it the US Supreme Court.

It's actually not unprecedented;

No.

I'm surprised that reports that a current federal prosecutor chose to invoke his Fifth Amendment rights to avoid self-incrimination hasn't become a bigger news story today. I suspect that this will eventually become a bigger issue before it's all over.

Originally Posted by Bruce

Only temporarily.

Arizona is wasting its time and resources; a federal court will assume jurisdiction, invoke the Supremacy Clause, then dismiss everything, and the coverup will continue unabated, unless AZ has the stones to take it the US Supreme Court.

It's actually not unprecedented;

No.

So then I guess individual federal agents can claim to act under color of law while willfully breaking both state and federal laws and nobody can do anything about it...my guess is Arizona has intention to take it to the Supreme Court. They can add it to the backlog of state's rights cases right up there with immigration and healthcare.

Originally Posted by Steve King

I'm surprised that reports that a current federal prosecutor chose to invoke his Fifth Amendment rights to avoid self-incrimination hasn't become a bigger news story today. I suspect that this will eventually become a bigger issue before it's all over.

You're right, that should be a HUGE story and I am betting that the course of this next Presidential election will have a major impact upon how many butts end up in slings. A change in administration and federal appointments will remove a lot of the protections that currently exist. I sincerely doubt however that the actors at the core of this whole thing will ever face any scrutiny as I have no doubt Fast and Furious goes all the way to the top. It was an ill conceived attempt to use the BATFE to gather criminal data for prohibitive gun legislation, especially in the Southwest region of the U.S.

Originally Posted by Steve King

I'm surprised that reports that a current federal prosecutor chose to invoke his Fifth Amendment rights to avoid self-incrimination hasn't become a bigger news story today. I suspect that this will eventually become a bigger issue before it's all over.

The Republican nominee should beat that drum with both hands during the campaign and especially during the debates.

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

So then I guess individual federal agents can claim to act under color of law while willfully breaking both state and federal laws and nobody can do anything about it...

Under this administration......pretty much.

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

my guess is Arizona has intention to take it to the Supreme Court. They can add it to the backlog of state's rights cases right up there with immigration and healthcare.

I hope you're correct, although if the Republican nominee (whoever he may be) wins the general election, my guess is that you'll probably see federal indictments before the SCOTUS hears the Arizona appeal case.

At the very least this will keep the heat on the BATFE long enough for it to be an issue (however minor) in the presidential race through election.

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

At the very least this will keep the heat on the BATFE long enough for it to be an issue (however minor) in the presidential race through election.

Good point, and I hope the Republican nominee beats that drum with both hands. It's hardly been a blip during the primary debates, which I hope changes for the Florida debate, and those going forward.

Originally Posted by Bruce

Good point, and I hope the Republican nominee beats that drum with both hands. It's hardly been a blip during the primary debates, which I hope changes for the Florida debate, and those going forward.

Yeah, not much for the GOP to say about it now. It'd probably go something like this.

Newt: "And I will hold those involved in Fast and Furious responsible for any and all crimes that may have occurred".

Mitt: "Me too."

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

Yeah, not much for the GOP to say about it now. It'd probably go something like this.

Newt: "And I will hold those involved in Fast and Furious responsible for any and all crimes that may have occurred".

Mitt: "Me too."

Actually, one of the few times it's been mentioned at a debate (there's been about 657 of them, so I forget which one), Romney fielded the question first, with Gingrich subsequently agreeing with Romney's position.

Originally Posted by Bruce

Actually, one of the few times it's been mentioned at a debate (there's been about 657 of them, so I forget which one), Romney fielded the question first, with Gingrich subsequently agreeing with Romney's position.

Half dozen one way, six the other. My point is no GOP candidate in his right mind would say anything otherwise. Doesn't Romney have a spotty gun control thing in his past though? I don't know but being from Mass. as gov. I would think he had to sign some kind of anti-gun legislation.

I'll mimic liberal media for ya:

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Hey did you see that rat bastard racist homophobic racist REALLY white conservative racist only paid 14% on his income tax? TAXES HTE RICH, LOLZZZ ZOMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

Doesn't Romney have a spotty gun control thing in his past though? I don't know but being from Mass. as gov. I would think he had to sign some kind of anti-gun legislation.

As Governor, he signed a bill to extend the ban on high-capacity magazines except for law enforcement & military, but that bill also made it easier/faster for people who are denied a gun permit by their local police chief to appeal to a judge, which resulted in a lot more gun permits being issued, which is a good thing to me.

The bill was also endorsed by the Gun Owner's Action League (GOAL, which is like a state-level NRA of which I'm a member), so I can't really get too worked-up about it. I have enough pre-ban high capacity magazines (which are legal ) for my AR-15, SR-1, and Glock to outfit a small army, so it's no big deal to me.

Romney's record;

http://goal.org/newspages/romney.html

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Originally Posted by Bruce

As Governor, he signed a bill to extend the ban on high-capacity magazines except for law enforcement & military, but that bill also made it easier/faster for people who are denied a gun permit by their local police chief to appeal to a judge, which resulted in a lot more gun permits being issued, which is a good thing to me.

The bill was also endorsed by the Gun Owner's Action League (GOAL, which is like a state-level NRA of which I'm a member), so I can't really get too worked-up about it. I have enough pre-ban high capacity magazines (which are legal ) for my AR-15, SR-1, and Glock to outfit a small army, so it's no big deal to me.

Romney's record;

The Romney Record, Mitt Romney's Record as Governor of MA

Thanks Bruce, I thought there was something. I never understood high capacity magazine bans. As if somehow being shot 10 times makes you less dead than if you were shot 15 times. I think the logic behind it is that cops would have superior "firepower" but I'm not sure "firepower" even belongs in the same sentence as "handgun". It must be a "feel good" thing for the anti-gun crowd.

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I think the idea is that if you have to reload more often, you can't kill as many people when you go on your inevitable rampage. Or something.

Originally Posted by SteveFoerster

I think the idea is that if you have to reload more often, you can't kill as many people when you go on your inevitable rampage. Or something.

Absolutley since every legal gun owner eventually goes on a rampage. I'm currently getting ready for mine.

Hasan did not have high capacity magazines, niether did Cho. The high capacity magazine bans are nothing more than the tip of the iceberg for opponents of 2A, they're after bigger and better fish.

A trained person can drop a magazine and have another loaded and be up and firing in less than a couple of seconds. You're dead no matter what.

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