Thread: Arizona conducts criminial investigation on the BATFE and company on Fast and Furious

Originally Posted by 03310151

I'll mimic liberal media for ya:

Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,
Iran/Contra, Iran/Contra,

Hey did you see that rat bastard racist homophobic racist REALLY white conservative racist only paid 14% on his income tax? TAXES HTE RICH, LOLZZZ ZOMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though I disagree with your political opinions, I thought this was quite funny.

That being said, Romney's not a racist. The only color he sees is green!

Originally Posted by StefanM

Even though I disagree with your political opinions, I thought this was quite funny.

That being said, Romney's not a racist. The only color he sees is green!

Thanks, I was just trying to be funny. In this day and age wanting money and being successful at getting it is the new KKK. I accept the political climate as it is.

Originally Posted by StefanM

Even though I disagree with your political opinions, I thought this was quite funny.

That being said, Romney's not a racist. The only color he sees is green!

That is true of pretty much every politician I've seen to date. Name one member of the House or Senate that left office with less money than they had going in. ;)

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

That is true of pretty much every politician I've seen to date. Name one member of the House or Senate that left office with less money than they had going in. ;)

Top 10 wealthiest senators Pictures (8-Democrats /2-Republicans):
1. Sen. John Kerry (D-Ma): Average net worth $238,812,295
2. Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va): Average net worth $174,385,102
3. Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis): Average net worth $160,302,011
4. Sen. James E. Risch (R-Idaho): Average net worth $109,034,052
5. Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va): Average net worth $98,832,010
6. Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn): Average net worth $94,870,116
7. Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Ca): Average net worth $77,082,134
8. Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ): Average net worth $77,886,611
9. Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn): Average net worth $50,717,522
10 Sen. Olympia J. Snowe (R-Me): Average net worth $28,612,527

Top 10 wealthiest senators*Pictures - CBS News

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

Thanks Bruce, I thought there was something. I never understood high capacity magazine bans. As if somehow being shot 10 times makes you less dead than if you were shot 15 times. I think the logic behind it is that cops would have superior "firepower" but I'm not sure "firepower" even belongs in the same sentence as "handgun". It must be a "feel good" thing for the anti-gun crowd.

That's exactly what it is, and the ironic thing is that my new (issued about 6 months ago) duty pistol, the SIG-Sauer P-220, only holds 8 rounds in the magazine. Then again, I'd rather one torso hit on an assailant with a .45 ACP than 2 hits with 9X19 rounds.

As for firepower, Evan Marshall once said "A handgun is most useful to fight your way to a shoulder weapon". Anytime I go to a call involving a gun or shots-fired, the shotgun leaves the cruiser with me.

Originally Posted by 03310151

Absolutley since every legal gun owner eventually goes on a rampage. I'm currently getting ready for mine.

I literally laughed out loud when I read that.

I'll say it again; in 24 years and dozens of firearms recovered, I've taken a properly licensed gun owner into custody exactly twice, and that was only because they were intoxicated; they slept it off, and were released with no criminal charges.

I've NEVER seen a crime committed with a firearm by a legal gun owner.

	Paralegals and Legal Assistants Paralegal and Legal Assistant Degrees One of a paralegal's most important tasks is helping lawyers prepare for closings, hearings, trials, and corporate meetings. Paralegals might investigate the facts of cases and ensure that all relevant information is considered. They also identify appropriate laws, judicial decisions, legal articles, and other materials that are relevant to assigned cases. After they analyze and organize the information, paralegals may prepare written reports that attorneys use in determining how cases should be handled. If attorneys decide to file lawsuits on behalf of clients, paralegals may help prepare the legal arguments, draft pleadings and motions to be filed with the court, obtain affidavits, and assist attorneys during trials. Paralegals also organize and track files of all important case documents and make them available and easily accessible to attorneys. •Job opportunities are projected to be better-than-average with strong employment growth; however, competition for jobs is expected. •Formally trained, experienced paralegals should have the best employment opportunities. •Most entrants have an associate’s degree in paralegal studies, or a bachelor's degree in another field and a certificate in paralegal studies. Click Here to find FREE information on schools offering this course of study.

Originally Posted by Bruce

That's exactly what it is, and the ironic thing is that my new (issued about 6 months ago) duty pistol, the SIG-Sauer P-220, only holds 8 rounds in the magazine. Then again, I'd rather one torso hit on an assailant with a .45 ACP than 2 hits with 9X19 rounds.

As for firepower, Evan Marshall once said "A handgun is most useful to fight your way to a shoulder weapon". Anytime I go to a call involving a gun or shots-fired, the shotgun leaves the cruiser with me.



I literally laughed out loud when I read that.

I'll say it again; in 24 years and dozens of firearms recovered, I've taken a properly licensed gun owner into custody exactly twice, and that was only because they were intoxicated; they slept it off, and were released with no criminal charges.

I've NEVER seen a crime committed with a firearm by a legal gun owner.

I'll have to dig, but there was an anti-gun article in the NY Times (I know right? How likely is that?) where they actually broke down the statistics of gun owners who committed gun crimes vs. everyone else. The paragraph was deep in the article but the rate of crime for gun owners was less than 1%. Still it was an anti gun article so they had their rationalization hamster going full speed until they came to the "correct" conclusion (guns and gun owners bad elite's good)and completely missed the raw data right in front of them.

Theres a guy who has a webcam fixed onto his AR15 with some absurd caption about waiting for the gun to go off and kill someone. Its been up for years.

Originally Posted by 03310151

I'll have to dig, but there was an anti-gun article in the NY Times (I know right? How likely is that?) where they actually broke down the statistics of gun owners who committed gun crimes vs. everyone else. The paragraph was deep in the article but the rate of crime for gun owners was less than 1%. Still it was an anti gun article so they had their rationalization hamster going full speed until they came to the "correct" conclusion (guns and gun owners bad elite's good)and completely missed the raw data right in front of them.

After Florida instituted "shall issue" legislation for handgun permits, less than 1/10th of 1% of the licenses were later revoked for misuse or criminal conduct.

Originally Posted by 03310151

Theres a guy who has a webcam fixed onto his AR15 with some absurd caption about waiting for the gun to go off and kill someone. Its been up for years.

There's probably more than one, but this one always cracks me up;

Smith and Wesson Cam

Assault Weapon Watch

Details
The HK-21 we are monitoring was turned in for a $25 Chuck E. Cheese gift certificate at a local gun buyback program we were volunteering at near a New Jersey pre-school. We are convinced this was the assault rifle that will commit violence if ever there was one. Instead of a magazine of 20 or 30 rounds it has a whole "belt" of ammunition like you see in old war movies! It is missing a bayonet lug and folding stock but, with your generous donations, we will be working on obtaining these to complete this epitome of pure evil. It weights over 20 lbs! Imagine the thugs that carry this around all day, unleashing destruction on unsuspecting innocents!

Weapon of choice for:
Airplane hijacking, jaywalking, convenience store robberies

Originally Posted by major56

Top 10 wealthiest senators Pictures (8-Democrats /2-Republicans):
1. Sen. John Kerry (D-Ma): Average net worth $238,812,295
2. Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va): Average net worth $174,385,102
3. Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis): Average net worth $160,302,011
4. Sen. James E. Risch (R-Idaho): Average net worth $109,034,052
5. Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va): Average net worth $98,832,010
6. Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn): Average net worth $94,870,116
7. Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Ca): Average net worth $77,082,134
8. Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg (D-NJ): Average net worth $77,886,611
9. Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn): Average net worth $50,717,522
10 Sen. Olympia J. Snowe (R-Me): Average net worth $28,612,527

Top 10 wealthiest senators*Pictures - CBS News

This is obviously from a unreliable source, like Faux News (hahahahah I'm laughing at my own immense amount of cleverness there, do you see what I did instead of spelling it correctly I used a word that sounds almost the same but has an ironic meaning....hehehehehe oh look its the new IPhone.....) there are bunch of democrats on that list. All of the democrats, in the guise of "fairness" have donated all of their money back to the government for more EBT cards, so this is quite clearly a fake. Who did this, Tom Brokaw....I mean Hush Bimbo.....the leader of racist white republicans who want to kill black people and make women into whores for all to enjoy?

@Bruce, a Sig 220 is a great duty weapon. I carried one plain clothes for about 2 years until switching over to a Sig 229 in .40 S&W. That said I'd rather hit a perp twice with a 9mm than one .45, but that's only because I do not believe in 1 shot stops. I think you keep shooting until the threat is removed, not "shoot and see what happens". I'm sure you agree. Also I took a tactical handgun course at Tiger Valley (SWAT Training) and tactical shooting via Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) and in the rapid handgun drills I couldn't keep up with a .45, especially the reloads (I had to reload twice for every 1 of the other guys). I switched to .40 and eventually got it but the guys with Glock 19s were creaming me. I tried a go at it with a Glock 19 and went through the shoot house like a squirrel on meth, fast, fast, fast. I loved the 9mm after that experience but I also love the .45 and sometimes in a shooting you only get the chance at 1 shot and it has to count. So there's something to be said for that too.

As for the shotgun, Remington 870 is hands down my favorite. Reliable to a fault, in fact it's really, really dang hard to break one.

@ Everyone, I think you all will find this interesting. Texas keeps meticulous records on CHL holders and PUBLICLY publishes everything 100% transparency to include who has a CHL. That's right my neighbors can see if I'm licensed to carry or not (some people like it, some don't. The funny thing is CHL holders account for less than 1% convictions in TX for pretty much any crime and usually are less that 1/10th of a percent. And for murder? 0.000% almost every year (in fact it may be every year I just haven't looked at ALL the reports. Texas DPS - CHL Conviction Rates Reports

Weird, CHL holders just don't seem to do a lot of robbin', rapin' and killin' but they have certainly put the kibosh on a lot of violent crime over the past decade or so.

By the way, I just bought a S&W .380 Bodyguard for a pocket carry gun... I am so stoked!

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

@Bruce, a Sig 220 is a great duty weapon. I carried one plain clothes for about 2 years until switching over to a Sig 229 in .40 S&W. That said I'd rather hit a perp twice with a 9mm than one .45, but that's only because I do not believe in 1 shot stops. I think you keep shooting until the threat is removed, not "shoot and see what happens". I'm sure you agree. Also I took a tactical handgun course at Tiger Valley (SWAT Training) and tactical shooting via Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) and in the rapid handgun drills I couldn't keep up with a .45, especially the reloads (I had to reload twice for every 1 of the other guys). I switched to .40 and eventually got it but the guys with Glock 19s were creaming me. I tried a go at it with a Glock 19 and went through the shoot house like a squirrel on meth, fast, fast, fast. I loved the 9mm after that experience but I also love the .45 and sometimes in a shooting you only get the chance at 1 shot and it has to count. So there's something to be said for that too.

We were only issued 2 spare magazines, so I bought 2 more, plus a quad magazine pouch, so now I'm actually carrying more ammo than I did with the prior P-226 in .40 caliber. As for 9mm's, they can be effective with the right ammo; the round we were issued when we carried 9mm's was the sub-sonic hollowpoint, which has an abysmal stopping record. I carry Cor-Bon 115 grain +P+ hollowpoints in my my off-duty Glock 26, and those have some serious oomph behind them.

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

As for the shotgun, Remington 870 is hands down my favorite. Reliable to a fault, in fact it's really, really dang hard to break one.

We carry Mossberg 500's with the 14-inch barrel, so we can mount the rack above the headrests. We also have full-length (18 inch) Remington 870's available for cruisers with no shotgun lock.

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

By the way, I just bought a S&W .380 Bodyguard for a pocket carry gun... I am so stoked!

I've never shot one, but I've heard good things about them.

Originally Posted by Bruce

We were only issued 2 spare magazines, so I bought 2 more, plus a quad magazine pouch, so now I'm actually carrying more ammo than I did with the prior P-226 in .40 caliber. As for 9mm's, they can be effective with the right ammo; the round we were issued when we carried 9mm's was the sub-sonic hollowpoint, which has an abysmal stopping record. I carry Cor-Bon 115 grain +P+ hollowpoints in my my off-duty Glock 26, and those have some serious oomph behind them.



We carry Mossberg 500's with the 14-inch barrel, so we can mount the rack above the headrests. We also have full-length (18 inch) Remington 870's available for cruisers with no shotgun lock.



I've never shot one, but I've heard good things about them.

Mossberg makes a great shotgun, the aluminum receivers can cause havoc when they get hot though. We had shells getting stuck due to I believe brass expansion in the chamber, not sure. Honestly the Marine nickle plated Remington 870s did the same thing so I blame ammo more than the guns. Either way we switched to parkerized 870s and never once had a problem.

Good for you on the extra 2 magazines, a quick reload with a single stack takes some practice though. I'm sure you've done plenty but just make sure you can do it on the move. I had trouble at first and there is nothing more frustrating than dropping a fully loaded magazine during a tactical reload.

The 9mm 147gr. subsonic rounds are good for 2 things only, penetration and not giving a supersonic "crack" when fired from a supressed gun. I carried 147gr. for a while primarily because the passed the FBI's penetration tests and were one of their few approved rounds. I later switched to Gold Dot 124gr. and Remington Golden Sabre 124gr. both of which are excellent reputationally. Also the Winchester Rangers are reported to be awesome. I have a list somewhere of approved ammo but I'll have to dig for it. Basically the Feds wanted a round that penetrated at least 17 inches of ballistic gel, would be able to penetrate a front car windshield and "x" amount of inches in gel after that without the bullet fragmenting apart, etc. It was a pretty tough test for 9mm rounds and only a handful made the cut. The .40 S&W did well but I can't remember how the .45 did. Anyhow it was interesting reading the report.

The report made such a lasting impression on me that I'll likely carry FMJ .380s as those were the only rounds that passed the 17 inch ballistic gel test. The idea is shot placement counts but shot placement means nothing if your round fails to penetrate adequately (like the Miami Dade shootout).

	Concordia University - Portland Concordia University - Portland Located in Portland, Oregon, Concordia University is a private, Christian, liberal arts university. The school offers a variety of online degrees, including an MBA, Masters in Education with specialties in ESOL, Curriculum Instruction, Methods of Leadership, Science, Reading, and Special Education. The school is regonally accredited, the most widely recognized form of accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school. [/center]

Originally Posted by StefanM

The only color he sees is green!

Is that green like as in tree-hugger or green like as in moolah?

Hey Bruce, I was wrong, it was a minimum of 12 inches penetration with 18 inches preferred by the FBI. This should be mandatory reading for every police officer in America http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Also not the kinetic energy difference between the 9mm. The example was a 9mm is like a 1lb weight being dropped on you from 6ft (approx) whereas the .45 would be like 11ft (approx).

Here is various ammo testing data Personal Defense Ammunition Performance Data

	Concordia University - Portland Concordia University - Portland Located in Portland, Oregon, Concordia University is a private, Christian, liberal arts university. The school offers a variety of online degrees, including an MBA, Masters in Education with specialties in ESOL, Curriculum Instruction, Methods of Leadership, Science, Reading, and Special Education. The school is regonally accredited, the most widely recognized form of accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school. [/center]

	Criminal Justice Degrees Criminal Justice Degrees Police and detectives pursue and apprehend individuals who break the law and then issue citations or give warnings. Most police officers patrol their jurisdictions and investigate any suspicious activity they notice. They also respond to calls from individuals. Detectives, who often are called agents or special agents, perform investigative duties such as gathering facts and collecting evidence. The daily activities of police and detectives vary with their occupational specialty—such as police officer, game warden, or detective—and whether they are working for a local, State, or Federal agency. Duties also differ substantially among various Federal agencies, which enforce different aspects of the law. Regardless of job duties or location, police officers and detectives at all levels must write reports and maintain meticulous records that will be needed if they testify in court. Parole officers perform many of the same duties that probation officers perform. The difference is that parole officers supervise offenders who have been released from prison, whereas probation officers work with those who are sentenced to probation instead of prison. Pretrial services officers conduct pretrial investigations, the findings of which help determine whether suspects should be released before their trial. In most jurisdictions, probation is a county function and parole is a State function. •Job opportunities are expected to be excellent. •Employment growth, which is projected to be faster-than-average, is dependent on government funding. •For parole or probation officers, a bachelor's degree in social work, criminal justice, psychology, or a related field is usually required. Click Here to find FREE information on schools offering this course of study.

Originally Posted by Ted Heiks

Is that green like as in tree-hugger or green like as in moolah?

The Moolah, of course! Mitt Romney has the "cheddar."

Originally Posted by friendorfoe

Hey Bruce, I was wrong, it was a minimum of 12 inches penetration with 18 inches preferred by the FBI. This should be mandatory reading for every police officer in America http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Also not the kinetic energy difference between the 9mm. The example was a 9mm is like a 1lb weight being dropped on you from 6ft (approx) whereas the .45 would be like 11ft (approx).

Here is various ammo testing data Personal Defense Ammunition Performance Data

Thanks for the link!

When I was in the Gulf War, we still carried M1911A1's, being a National Guard unit. One day we were speaking to some Egyptian soldiers through our Kuwaiti translator; they wanted to see my pistol, so I unloaded it and handed to them, and they let me look at one of theirs (early generation SA-only Beretta 9mm). There were three of them crowded around, looking down the barrel of my .45, and they were visibly impressed. One of them said something that caused the Kuwaiti translator to laugh, so I asked what he said.

The Kuwaiti said "He said that with this gun, if you run out of ammunition, you can crawl inside the barrel and hide".

	Concordia University - Portland Concordia University - Portland Located in Portland, Oregon, Concordia University is a private, Christian, liberal arts university. The school offers a variety of online degrees, including an MBA, Masters in Education with specialties in ESOL, Curriculum Instruction, Methods of Leadership, Science, Reading, and Special Education. The school is regonally accredited, the most widely recognized form of accreditation. Click Here to receive FREE information on this school. [/center]

	Criminal Justice Degrees Criminal Justice Degrees Police and detectives pursue and apprehend individuals who break the law and then issue citations or give warnings. Most police officers patrol their jurisdictions and investigate any suspicious activity they notice. They also respond to calls from individuals. Detectives, who often are called agents or special agents, perform investigative duties such as gathering facts and collecting evidence. The daily activities of police and detectives vary with their occupational specialty—such as police officer, game warden, or detective—and whether they are working for a local, State, or Federal agency. Duties also differ substantially among various Federal agencies, which enforce different aspects of the law. Regardless of job duties or location, police officers and detectives at all levels must write reports and maintain meticulous records that will be needed if they testify in court. Parole officers perform many of the same duties that probation officers perform. The difference is that parole officers supervise offenders who have been released from prison, whereas probation officers work with those who are sentenced to probation instead of prison. Pretrial services officers conduct pretrial investigations, the findings of which help determine whether suspects should be released before their trial. In most jurisdictions, probation is a county function and parole is a State function. •Job opportunities are expected to be excellent. •Employment growth, which is projected to be faster-than-average, is dependent on government funding. •For parole or probation officers, a bachelor's degree in social work, criminal justice, psychology, or a related field is usually required. Click Here to find FREE information on schools offering this course of study.