Lawsuit filed against tough new Alabama immigration law

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Randell1234, Jul 8, 2011.

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  1. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Maybe I am missing something but how is it descrimination when you question someone that is a possible criminal? If they enter a country illegally, isn't that a crime? If I sneak into a concert would it be wrong to have me removed?

    "Alabama has brazenly enacted this law despite the clear writing on the wall: Federal courts have stopped each and every one of these discriminatory laws from going into effect," said Cecillia Wang, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Immigrants' Rights Project.



    Lawsuit filed against tough new Alabama immigration law - Yahoo! News
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    "Under the Alabama law, police must detain someone they suspect of being in the country illegally if the person cannot produce proper documentation when stopped for any reason."

    And on what are police supposed to base these suspicions? How exactly can you do that without ethnic profiling? Does anyone really think that white folks are the ones who will end up in the county jail when they don't have ID on them?

    -=Steve=-
     
  3. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    It's not just a matter of ID. A driver's license is valid ID, but a driver's license alone does not suffice as proof of citizenship. You would have to show the police a US passport, or a driver's license plus a birth certificate, to establish citizenship. Realistically, even most legal Americans do not carry the "proper documentation" around with them at all times (nor, I suspect, do they wish to).

    If we acknowledge that most Americans don't carry "proper documentation", then it follows most Americans could be subject, in theory, to police detention. But that's probably not how it would work. In practice, it seems likely that certain people would be regarded as much more suspicious than others.

    If you are a US citizen of Hispanic descent and live in Alabama, then my advice would be: apply for a US passport immediately, and then carry it with you at all times, even if you have no plans to leave your own country. Without "proper documentation", you won't be able to immediately prove your US citizenship, and so there is a realistic chance that a simple traffic stop could result in your detention:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2011
  4. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    I have always wondered about profiling. There is a difference between the police harrassing a group of teenagers based on their race because they may assume they are up to something (just because of race) vs. a situation where we are cracking down on illegal immigrates and if someone looks like they are from a place other then the US and you stop them for a reason, ask for proof of citizenship. I guess I see it like this, if someone robs a store and the store owner says, "they were tall with red hair, white skin, and had a U2 t-shirt" would it be ethnic profiling if the police went to the Irish area of town or would that just be a reasonable step?

    Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this in a mean spirit, just wondering. Just like the term "reverse racism"...isn't that loving people for their race? :jester:
     
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    In this scenario, are the police also authorized to detain anyone who looks Irish and who can't immediately provide "proper documentation" of their status at the time the store was robbed ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2011
  6. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Of course not...point taken.
     
  7. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    This is the situation that my Mexican American friends deal with in El Paso. Nevermind that there were Mexicans in Texas before Texas was Texas, if you have the wrong color skin (in this case, it is actually ok to be black- go figure!), or speak a word of Spanish in public, you are immediately under suspicion. Thankfully, things are not completely out of hand in El Paso- the police seem to understand that many (if not most? I don't know, myself) of the Mexicans in the city are actually legal citizens, often natively born, but there is still a clear and unfair differential treatment.

    My non-Mexican friends report that if they ride in the same car with someone with tan skin, then the police may suspect that you are sneaking people across the border. In fact, if you ride in the same car with someone whose legal status you have not confirmed yourself (really, who ever thinks to ask a friend that they went to school with "hey, are you legal?"), you might be taking a gamble on your own freedom.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2011
  8. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    It's not racial profiling, it's the law of statistics.
     
  9. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    It has, literally, nothing to do with the law of statistics Ecological fallacy.

    Invoking "the law of statistics" in this circumstance is exactly the same as saying that an individual with certain physical characteristics is "more likely" to commit a certain crime. Not only does the ecological fallacy demonstrate that that is untrue, it is simply unfair for a natural born US citizen to come under the scrutiny of law enforcement for no other reason than the immutable characteristics of one's phenotype. There is a word for that, you know...

    EDIT: Now that I think of it, your statement contradicts itself. Using "The Law of Statistics" as a guide for who to scrutinize is racial profiling, EXACTLY. You might not like to use the term "racial profiling" because it sounds bad, but that is, in fact, exactly what we are talking about here. If not, you can further your position by showing some examples of Americans with Caucasian features in the border states whom are required to show their "documents" to the police. Then it wouldn't be racial profiling... but it would then have nothing to do with the "Law of Statistics" either. In this situation, the two concepts are inseparable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2011
  10. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Let me say this, I have no problem with racial profiling. If there was a huge influx of illegals coming from Ireland or the Netherlands, or catholic white guys hijacking planes I wouldn't be offended if I was profiled.

    Call it whatever you want, when we have a problem with illegal immigrants coming primarily from one part of the planet, I have no problem with individuals fitting that description being required to show ID. When the majority of terrorists are Muslim, I have no problem with Muslim travelers being scrutinized at airport security. That doesn't make me a racist, it means have common sense.
     
  11. major56

    major56 Active Member

    I never cease to be surprised with PC indoctrination and buy-in. Common sense, experience, and/or irrefutable characteristic data are dismissed as insensitivity along with being labeled as racial profiling, biased and even racist; it’s truly disturbing (e.g., PC via coercion). In reality, PC is merely an ongoing intensive effort toward both societal cognitive and verbal censorship (a dumb-down), and in this instance, the acceptance of unimpeded ILLEGAL /UNLAWFUL migration to the US— turning a blind-eye to lawlessness by means of PC intimidation strategy. Given long enough, PC propaganda has been quite effective with those who were already predisposed as easily influenced and swayed.

    Eph. 4:14 (NIV) “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.”
     
  12. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Does anyone want to volunteer their own race to be profiled?

    I'm just wondering.
     
  13. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Let's see if I follow you correctly. Whatever you believe is "common sense" and whatever you disagree with is "indoctrination?"

    Yes, those evil, dangerous PCists who will round you up and check your papers based upon nothing more than what set of parents you wrongfully decided to be born to.

    Of course, those deceitfully scheming are the ones who were indoctrinated into disagreeing with you, right? It must be because you have common sense.
     
  14. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Although I do not see this as profiling, and I do agree with Major56 to a point - people have become so concerned with being PC they refuse to have a stand for anything, this quote comes to mind:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me.

    Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
     
  15. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Sure. I'm 1/2 Irish, 15/16ths Dutch and 1/16 native American, Catholic. Profile the crap out of us.
     
  16. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    This is taking a bad twist...
     
  17. Hadashi no Gen

    Hadashi no Gen New Member

    100% ignorance and pride.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2011
  18. major56

    major56 Active Member

    You’re absolutely right Randell …
    It’s prudent to not engage an exercise in futility…
     
  19. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Where is the common sense in searching a 92 yr old cancer patient at airport security, or patting down a 7 year old Caucasian kid? Commonsense would dictate that they are almost certainly not a threat, ut they were subjected to unneeded searches in the name of being PC.

    Common sense would also dictate that the Caucasian or black guy with a Southern accent is likely hear legally. Theguy who is clearly Latin and can barely speak English? Commonsense would indicate you should probably check his legal status.

    You can call me racist all you want, anyone with any sense of intelligence and common sense will simply call me right.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2011
  20. major56

    major56 Active Member

    Lest we forget: Could PC buy-in have likely played a role in the horrific 2009 event at Fort Hood where Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Hasan murdered 13 and injured 30 more? E.g., 11/09/09 “U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan was attempting to make contact with an individual associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.”) Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact al Qaeda Terrorists, Officials Say - ABC News

    11/09/09: "Intelligence agencies intercepted communications last year and this year between the military psychiatrist accused of shooting to death 13 people at Fort Hood, Tex., and a radical cleric in Yemen known for his incendiary anti-American teachings."
    Fort Hood Suspect Communicated With Radical Cleric, Authorities Say - NYTimes.com

    01/16/10: “The Army missed or glossed over warning signs of the enemy within who killed 13 in the Fort Hood massacre last November, a military review concluded Friday.”
    Army missed warning signs of Major Nidal Hasan's Fort Hood massacre: military review - New York Daily News
     

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