Thinking of starting a school... why shouldn't I?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by thomas_jefferson, Sep 20, 2010.

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  1. If you've got the hint from some of my other threads, I'm thinking of starting an online school based on Moodle or Sakai. I'd like to have it up and running at the same time as earning my EdD. I could purchase a .org or .com to start.

    Faculty positions would be volunteer/unpaid and open to anyone with 18+ graduate credits in a subject -- preference would be given to those with online degrees. Unpaid administrative positions would also be available. Classes would be 6 weeks to minimize commitment times. Class sizes would be small, 5-10 people. They'd also be free or donation-based to start.

    I would like to see much effort directed at building the skills of teachers, getting them experienced in course design and implementation.

    This small college would strive to be a principled and unique niche school offering programs that the big guys aren't. DETC accreditation would be the ultimate goal. I already have possibly one partner capable of doing technical support and getting the web site and learning environment up. (This is the easy part though.)

    Other than this idea being "stupid" or "crazy" ... why shouldn't I do this? The hardest part to me seems to be finding students not finding teachers.

    Also, if you want to be involved in this project, please shoot me a message.
     
  2. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    I don't have a degree so I could not help teach, but I could be your first student!

    Moodle is free right?

    There are other none RA choices that might be just as low cost as DETC.
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    There is no reason "Why not." There are only the limitations you place on yourself. Your biggest challenge will be to explain to students why they should trust you. If, as you say, you plan to offer unique programs then the students will appear, given a smart marketing plan. What sorts of degrees might you offer?
     
  4. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    What controls the quality of the instruction when you have a bunch of unpaid and inexperienced teachers? I like the concept but it has some holes that would need to be patched.
     
  5. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    By DL? Will you be working a day-job while you are simultaneously a doctoral student and a university founder in your part-time? Won't you be spreading yourself awfully thin? I think that you might be underestimating things.

    Is six graduate classes really sufficient preparation for somebody to teach a subject at the university level? (Is this going to be a university level school? You haven't clarified that.)

    That criterion would dismiss the graduates of most academically strong programs, I think. Certainly the research-productive ones.

    Why should commitment times be minimized? Why would faculty, staff and students want to associate with this thing at all? What's the attraction that would make the volunteer/unrecognized work worth it?

    Like what, exactly? What subject do you propose to teach? Most unique niche-schools are operated by people with a real passion for something that's hard to find elsewhere. So what's your passion?

    Are you proposing to award your own unaccredited degrees, or just offer non-credit classes in whatever the subject is?

    Those both seem to be excellent reasons why.

    Here's a question: how do you propose to differentiate your school from the internet degree-mills? What makes your project different?
     
  6. apageor2

    apageor2 Member

    I'll give you a few thoughts on this regard..

    1) When I was first introduced to Moodle in 2008, I became a bit hesitant on how to use it or what benefits it would provide to me until learning more about the software scripting itself. Afterward, I discovered the benefit was in online distance learning as many of my students are not local and many adult learners were professionals with their own businesses to run.

    2) Moodle is an environment that just like other software, can come with its own quirks. Because it is an open source environment there are many differences of using it and a peripheral-based software. For example, when using open source software the software can be edited and manipulated to work as necessary. In the world of peripheral software, the software code is only edited by authorized users. Example: Microsoft - peripheral, GNU or AJAX based scripts - open source

    3) Lastly, at this time I am nearing my junior year as a PhD student and seeking opportunities in the online teaching world. If there is anything that I can do to help you please let me know. I have over 20 years experience in professional and executive experience. Feel free to contact me if you would like to speak more directly.

    Regards,
    Sue

    PS. At this time, I am going through one of my research classes so if I don't respond right away please be patient however I do respond within 24 to 48 hours (at most) to all email upon receiving it.
     
  7. perrymk

    perrymk Member

    I would like to re-iterate this point. There are already a variety of schools to choose from. Most people on this board seem to try to steer people to accredited schools, which you indicate will start without. I get one has to start somewhere.

    Another question is, Why do it?

    What's in it for you? What's in it for me? What are you bringing to the table that I can't get elsewhere? The no-cost thing is nice, but when I see something like this I feel one of two things must be true.
    1. It's worth what I pay for.
    2. What are they getting out of this (ID theft, etc.)

    I'm not trying to imply you are un-ethical. I suspect the opposite is true. But more information is needed.
     
  8. You're right, I think the biggest hurdle is giving the school legitimacy in the minds of the students and the faculty. Once it has that, I think things will start flowing. Achieving that BEFORE getting accreditation (a three year quest, at least, according to one of the founders of Aspen) is especially difficult.

    The types of degrees could be interdisciplinary to be able to draw from a diverse pool of talent. I think these would not only be the simplest to create but also the most interesting (at least for me).

    Let me give some random examples off the topic of my head:

    Doctor of Arts in Social Justice
    Masters of Arts in Applied Philosophy and the Humanities
    Bachelor of Arts in Management Studies
    Associate of Arts in Human Relations
    Certificate in Online Teaching and Research

    I literally just came up with these right now and they aren't real ideas I'm pursuing. I would hope to get some help generating program ideas from people smarter than myself. I would imagine the school would only have 1 or two programs to start with a number of long term program goals being developed throughout.

    There would be a lot of experimentation and failure, to be sure.
     
  9. Hopefully I can get these teachers to believe in the mission and vision of the school. Most of them would either be in graduate school or fresh out of it. This would be an opportunity to have the freedom to create your own class, get some experience, and also get a letter of recommendation and a reference.

    Unlike other schools that treat teachers as expendable, I'd like this school to be focused on respecting teachers and helping them grow along with the students. This would be a school for distance learners by distance learners.

    As for quality control, it would be a challenge -- a big challenge. But I think the first group of students going into a brand new school wouldn't expect things to be perfect.
     
  10. Thanks for the response, Bill. You're right, there's a lot of challenges.

    First, a question for you, do you think it is impossible?

    On to your questions... Yes, I would be spread thin and I'm probably underestimating the project. I am in the financial position to be able to work on an EdD and found a college while not working. So, at least I wouldn't have to worry about a day job. Ideally, I would incorporate my work in the EdD into the college founding thing so that they could be considered two aspects of the same project.

    18 credits would qualify someone to teach undergraduate classes. I imagine the school would start with a single undergraduate program, like an associate's or bachelor's, and hopefully move up to offering a DA.

    There's no doubt that discriminating against B&M graduates would wipe out those with the best CVs. This school isn't going to be a research institution though. It is going to offer some quirky interdisciplinary degrees and try to offer DL grads an opportunity for experience and growth. I don't want this school to try to be your local State school, community college, or a typical for profit like Walden. This is a model closest to a school like Harrison Middleton.

    To answer your question about passion, my passion for this project comes from years of taking DL classes and searching for DL programs and still coming up wanting. I think I can take my experiences and create something better. Rather than being an "expert" in a subject area, I want to try to bring together experts and collaborate on something new and different.

    Yes, the school would offer unaccredited degrees. There's no way to get around this other than buying an already accredited school, which I don't have capital for. It would have to. Also, to fill gaps it might be required that students take approved classes at UniversalClass or ed2go. In other words, there will be years of struggling for legitimacy. This school will be different from a degree mill because, quite simply, it won't be a degree mill. The perception that is one will be hard to shake and may never be shaken completely. I'm sure many average people think of Aspen University (NA accredited) and University of Phoenix (RA accredited) as degree mills.

    Thanks for the comments and questions, Bill. I appreciate it.
     
  11. Hey perry. I think addressed some of your questions in my previous posts but yes, one of the biggest challenges is securing privacy and trust. It boils down to legitimacy, how can you present this school as legitimate without having accreditation?

    The only two answers I can think of are: years of struggling until you finally do get accredited or buying a school that already has accreditation. I cannot afford the latter.

    What's in it for me is the satisfaction of creating a school that offers some interesting programs that people are passionate about it. Wouldn't that be something? The project sounds like a fascinating challenge. Also, maybe a small salary might manifest after a few years.

    Finally, I don't know what's in it for you -- excellent question. What would you want out of a program if it didn't have accreditation? What would get you to sign up?
     
  12. perrymk

    perrymk Member

    I get the satisfaction thing. It's not what I do for satisfaction, but then I'm not you.

    For me, it would have to be that you offered some special skill or knowledge I couldn't readily get elsewhere, and for which I wasn't too worried about price or accreditation. For example, a speciality Bible course might interest someone, accreditation or not. Maybe a course on comparing/contrasting religions. Specialized skills such as gold prospecting, homesteading, gardening, administrative/software skills, might get a small audience not worried about accreditation.

    Or one could get creative. Prisoner-society re-entry training, operating a cash box/register (I'm shocked how many people don't know how to make change), how to become an English-as-second-language teacher, etc.

    These are not necessarilly degree programs but hosting such programs might help set you up for later accreditation and degree offerings.

    In any case, it's nice to see someone who knows what they want, has a dash of realism in its pursuit, and is positive in the face of why-nots. I wish you all the best.
     
  13. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    No. But at this point the idea doesn't seem very well conceived. (It does create an interesting thread topic though.)

    I don't think so.

    Faculty qualifications are going to be a major weakness in this.

    What's wrong with offering individual non-credit classes, simply for whatever educational value they might have? The school could maybe create a certificate program somewhere down the road, after a sufficient number of classes are up and running smoothly.

    Every successful niche school that I know of is the product of some academic passion, the expression of a unique approach to a subject that isn't currently being addressed in quite that way by anyone else.

    The passion and the vision come first, then the school and its educational program evolve out of that. Niche-schools don't typically arise out of somebody's desire to own and run an internet university, with the subjects to be taught and the degrees to be awarded determined later.

    Put yet another way, successful niche-schools fullfill some need. Maybe nobody was even aware that the need existed until the new program appeared, because the school is spearheading a whole new way of approaching things. But once people are introduced to the concept, both students and their prospective employers will have some justification for their decisions to favor the thing.

    The school won't be accredited. It won't have any kind of quality assurance beyond its own statements. It won't have any kind of academic, scholarly or professional reputation. Its faculty will be marginally qualified at best. It probably won't have any academic vision that might serve to make it distinctive.

    There has to be more to it than that.
     
  14. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    If this school was to be truly cost and profit free, then I'm sure that there are plenty of utopians that would be happy to join. I'd study there, and teach there if I one day qualified. Yes, I'm a dreamer and an idealist at heart and I love this idea.

    There is plenty of opencourseware on the net. The biggest difference between them and an actual online course that I can discern is that there are professors to assign and assess work, whereas opencourses are 100% independent. I think it would be a great idea if there were people willing to use the free, available courses, and take on the role of the professor. Thats my idea, and I leave it here because I really wouldn't mind if someone stole it :)

    Anyway, if you could pull this off, you would be the Patch Adams of education :).
     
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Respecting the teachers and using them as unpaid slave labor do not exactly go together.
     
  16. I agree that the idea isn't fully developed. Maybe you'll give me some feedback as it grows. I'm planning on creating an informational video and putting it on YouTube which will better illustrate things.

    As for offering non-credit classes, that's definitely an option. Maybe, as you say, starting with a certificate of some kind is better than trying for an associate's degree.

    I also think you're right that starting a niche college requires a passion. For example, I don't know its exact history but I imagine the Transpersonal Psychology Institute was devised by transpersonal psychologists. By contrast, the school I'd be interested in creating would be interdisciplinary or even, to borrow CIIS's term, transdisciplinary. I'm passionate about providing a platform for this diversity and in this sense I don't necessarily need to be a specialist in one niche subject. At least, that's the theory I'm working under!

    Best quote is this:

    The school won't be accredited. It won't have any kind of quality assurance beyond its own statements. It won't have any kind of academic, scholarly or professional reputation. Its faculty will be marginally qualified at best. It probably won't have any academic vision that might serve to make it distinctive.


    Boy, you make it sound grim! You're absolutely correct. Here's what I've got going for me though:

    1) It will be a nonprofit, which is in no way a quality assurance, but it does give some degree of respectability in the eyes of the general public. How many degree mills are transparent nonprofits with social missions?

    2) If the vision and mission sells, and I think it will, students and faculty will want to be a part of it based on idealism and personal satisfaction. There is a magnetism to good causes, and it is particularly strong in academia.

    3) I believe putting students and professors in the drivers seat will result in a more favorable learning environment than many schools that have large budgets and professors with stellar CVs.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  17. Thanks, hopefully this becomes a reality. Ultimately, I want to see the teacher's get paid a small stipend and also be able to pay administrators, technical support, and the operational costs. In the beginning it would have to be all volunteers and it would have to be free to students to generate interest. Some very massive open source projects have been done with all volunteers, hopefully I could hope to tap into that kind of selfless mojo.

    I don't know what the per-credit cost would be though for a nonprofit working under these conditions. 50/credit ?
     
  18. I can understand your position. As a nonprofit startup, there's not really much that can be done, it will have to initially be volunteers. Hopefully it would get to a place where teachers got reasonable compensation for their efforts.

    I think there's things other than pay that could be gained by helping out in the beginning:

    1) Experience
    2) It could be the policy of the organization to give hiring preference to those teachers who signed on as volunteers in the early stages.
    3) Letters of recommendation
    4) References
    5) Personal satisfaction

    I think there would be people motivated by these things alone, without compensation.
     
  19. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    None of the above replaces the need to put a roof over one's head and food on one's table.
     
  20. Sure, it wouldn't make sense to create a career out of volunteering. I don't think anyone who would teach a class or two at a nonprofit upstart university would go into it with that expectation though.
     

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