http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo This is probably but one of the few "Christian militia/Christian Identity type" cult movements alive right now. It must be the end of times now that we have a black President. I guess they believe they are on a Crusade. Abner
I'm not very excited about government either, but come on guys, that doesn't mean it's right to assassinate agents of the state. And even if it weren't, you know, wrong to kill people, these guys are nuts if they think it would be effective -- they'd have been hunted down like dogs and killed, game over. But while these guys are imbeciles, I'm not sure why you instantly conclude that a black president has anything to do with it. Nowhere in the article or the indictment did it say that was their motivation, and it's not like there wasn't a militia movement long before Obama was in the Oval Office. Also, I was surprised that the indictment referred to a section of the U.S. Code that says improvised explosive devices are "weapons of mass destruction". That's kind of dumb sounding to me. It's not like I want a pipe bomb with a timer in my Christmas stocking or anything, but when I hear WMD I exclusively think of biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons. -=Steve=-
Frankly speaking... stupidity has no limits - as proven by these exemplary folks. It is unfortunate that stupidity combined with aggression can lead to terrible deeds; thankfully they were caught before anything happened. I guess this is where I applaud the American legal system as it will hand out sentences befitting the crime, whereas Canada would likely release them on conditions (recently, a 17 year old who beat a 40 year old with a bat was released on $50 bail and a recognizance .. yes, you read correctly, $50); hell, our justice system gives house arrest to dope growers and pedophiles <cringe>
While I think your guess about a black President is in general a contibuting factor, I saw on the Keith Olbermann Show (IIRC) that this particular place is not racist. Specifically, they had kicked someone off of their website for spewing racist nonsense. More concern to me was an assertion that a survey about Obama indicated that 25% of Republicans believed that Obama might be the anti-christ.
I occasionally analyze such devices as part of my job as a Crime Lab Analyst. Another device I analyze is properly called a Chemical Reaction Bomb. This is more commonly known as a pop bottle bomb or acid bomb, although acid isn't always used. These are that things kids like to make to see something go boom. Anyway, I was testifying in court and the defense attorney kept saying "bomb" and I kept correcting her with "chemical reaction bomb." I suspect her motivation was to play up the legal wording and then show how un-bomb-like the device actually was. Deliberately misrepresenting the truth like that is, in my opinion, wrong. It's even more wrong when done in a court of law.
It's a great thing these people were caught before they could move ahead with their plans. I wonder how much the Patriot act contributed to this "Patriot" group's demise. I do find it a shame that this event spurs such a partisan rancor like it does, thus the media coverage explosion. Yet 10 people shot last night in DC, 4 dead, and it's barely a blurb in the headlines. I'd say we have more to worry about from the streets of southeast DC than the forests of southeast Michigan...
You cannot be a patriot AND be against our government. In the U.S., the government is the people. Our country is based on a good idea and common agreement (and disagreement!). Sure, any of us can and often do object to things our government does. Dissent is fine and is a vital part of our national discourse. But these people have sworn themselves as our enemies. IMHO, they have taken up arms against us and we should stop them each and every time. Tea baggers beware.
Here is some good stuff: Quotes from LA Times 3/31/10 "Alabama blogger Mike Vanderboegh published a post on Friday that railed against Congress for taking up the controversial healthcare bill and urged readers to, "break their windows." "There are millions of people across the country who wish you ill," a woman said in a voicemail to the Congressman, "and all of those thoughts that are projected on you will materialize into something that's not very good for you." If this had happened against the last Bush regime, these people would be weeded out, picked by the secret police and they would have jailed their neice (DK ref.), striped them naked and would have been videotaped for their pleasure. One thing about Bush, he took care of dissenters VERY quickly. No anti-Bush shirts allowed at his rallies or speaking events. Quality control was immaculate. I am not saying I agree with that, but he kept a tight lid on his dissenters. Of course towards the end, when it was cool to bash on him, his own party joined the fray, but not until it was to late and they had no other choice. Just some observations. Nobody has to agree with them. Abner
I am insulted for other reasons... I carry the banner of Christian proudly and do not like my religious preference smeared by zealots, such as these. Regardless of your political or religious affiliation, I am sure that many of us in this forum agree that our country is perched on the edge of what appears to be a slippery slope. Eventually, the "print it and spend it" mentality in our country will come home to roost. Aside from my fear of America's financial viability in the future, I would never condone killing agents of the state as a "solution".
That worries me more than any fringe right/left wing nutjobs. Well, that and walking down a sidewalk in certain parts of Baltimore or DC after dark...
The problem with groups like the Teabaggers is they never complained about the endless spending during the Bush years, but now they claim they are worried? Why were they not protesting when the deficit left for Obama was being created? I also think the RNC needs to be careful about getting to close with some of these fringe groups. They may have to own what comes with groups like these. Racism, shouting at gay congressmen, and calling black Senators Nigger! If they can't control that type of behavior, they may end up owning it. Abner
Has anyone seen any actual video of what supposedly happened? http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/andrew-breitbart-to-donate-10k-to-the-uncf-to-anyone-with-video-evidence-that-tea-party-uttered-rac/blog-285407/
How do you know the "teabaggers" didn't complain about spending under Bush? Maybe they were silenced by the secret police you alleged in an earlier post. Besides, most of these people are libertarians who have been complaining about democrats and republicans for years. Also, I'm still waiting for that video of the slurs. I was there that day and didn't hear a peep of that kind of talk. As a matter of fact, there were several protests that day, but we only seem to hear about this one and it's alleged racism (that no one caught on camera even though cameras were EVERYWHERE). And every poster I've seen at a rally (one of my hobbies is to go to all kinds of events organized by all sides; convenient being so close to DC) depicting President Obama with a Hitler mustache has "LaRouchepac.com" on it. "Teabaggers", the RNC, and LaRouche (certified loon) supporters are not necessarily synonymous. Blind supporters of President Obama and his excess spending are just as bad as the blind supporters of President Bush and his excess spending. There is a growing number of people out there who are dissatisfied with both political gangs/parties. I doubt a third party will rise out of this just yet, but the cynic in me believes the worst of times are still ahead of us...
If a hyperinflationary period hits America - can we sustain the blow? That is what worries me especially since my children are scattered around the United States.
It's a legitimate point, I think. It's one of the reasons why so many independents abandoned the Republicans in the last election. But the fact that Bush governed badly in a fiscal sense isn't justification for Obama to double down on bad fiscal behavior and multiply Bush's already obscene deficits. He should be trying to improve these dangerous things, not make them even worse. The same thing can be said about the Democrats. There's everything from Code Pink to the founders of the terrorist Weather Underground. A whole oppositional sub-culture lives out there on the left-wing of the Democratic party populated by sometimes-violent and always in-your-face militants. Actually, I'm not sure if I'd call the Tea Party Movement a fringe group. I'm not really sure what it is, but it seems like it might be an expression of traditional American populism. Now that Obama's health care obsession has passed, the next item on the left agenda seems to be to try to demonize the Tea Party people. All of the liberal news and opinion media seem to have raised that issue to lead off their headlines during the last week or so and are pushing it very hard. It might work. If the media offensive can create doubt in political independents' minds, then fewer reasonable moderates will participate in grass-roots Tea Party activities, which might be increasingly dominated by looney-tunes nut cases. These in turn can be spotlighted with the network news TV cameras and made to represent the whole thing. That's the plan anyway, in my estimation. It seems to be how the liberals hope to take the Tea Parties down. That's going to be like swimming upstream though, since the American people favor bottom-up populism over top-down paternalism by better than two to one. Put another way, they trust the judgement of the American people as a whole more than they trust the judgement of the political-cultural-economic elites. That's the instinct upon which American democracy was originally built. It's why we vote. So it's going to be inherently difficult to convince mainstream-America that they themselves are atavistic and that their own gatherings and expressions are dangerous. That's doubly true when America doesn't entirely trust the news and opinion media (there's little difference) that tries so hard to lead them. The whole thing could end up back-firing by making the elites seem even more arrogant, paternalistic and contemptuous of the people, further fueling the populist surge. To the extent that the Tea Parties really are expressions of the popular mood and of popular identity, then there's going to be some real danger in trying to caricaturize those things, no matter how accepted the caricature might already be in NY, LA and DC.
