Agree or disagree? Why? Why not?

The key problem in American education in the absence of quality? What are your thoughts?

Thanks,

 

Are you talking about elementary education, secondary education, or higher education?

-Matt

 

Any, just generally speaking.

Thanks,

 

When taken en toto, the American education system is the envy of the world. This is especially true in higher education. There are around the world pockets of excellence, but consider that we educate a huge population at all social strata. We don't pick and choose who we educate--we take 'em all on.

I'd like to de-emphasize the passion we have for forcing all children through Grade 12, however, and follow other systems that split many kids off at year 10 towards vocational education and training. How many kids are just going through the motions because being drop-outs makes them pariahs? If they had an honorable, fruitful alternative track, they might find themselves highly trained--and employable--at a much younger age.

And tertiary education? We have some 7,000+ public and private institutions, more than 4,000 of whom offer degrees. Top that, anyone else. (I didn't check these numbers, so I apologize if I'm off.)

 

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I believe that a (not the) key problem in American Education (assuming you mean the government run mandated system) stems from the government's definition and implementation of "quality." Of course, this is top on my list of why I homeschool my kids, and I have plenty of problems not relevant to quality lol.

Stepping outside the box (or squashing it) I'm more inclined to follow Rich's arguments regarding compulsory education....but that's for another day.

I know it's hard to grasp the idea, but you really can't create an equation that is without a variable. (hint: individual people) So, any specific curriculum taught by any certain person isn't going to produce a specific result every time....and should it? It's maddening to me that consistency is somehow THE GOAL. Competency based education is a goal. No child left behind is a goal. Why?

Not rhetorically, I'd like to hear how others define "quality" education.

 

Rich has a way of using few words to express much. I don't think there's anything else anyone could possibly add. I do think that, in general, our culture (American) makes us rather cynical, as we tend to expect, no matter how good things are, that things be even better. Overall, we have a GREAT education system. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same experience, and even more unfortunately, not everyone appreciates the opportunities laid before them.

 

I disagree. The key problem for primary education (grades 1-12) is the lack of value people place on this truly remarkable offering. It seems many treat the schools like a babysitter in an adversarial setting. Take care of the kid, but remember the kid is always an angel.

Children should be sent to school prepared to learn. This goes beyond providing a good breakfast. It's more about attitude. The children are not likely to have a positive attitude about school and learning unless they are taught this by the parents.

Of course there are exceptions, but the question sounds like one of generalities.

 

Great post.

I work partially in the public school system. I have noticed that many "failing" schools actually employ great teachers and have tremendous resources (even greater than my own, nonfailing school did). The problem with many schools is NOT the funding, NOT the curriculum, and NOT the computers or lacktherof. Rather, the problem is the students themselves. I have never once heard any school administrator nor polititian admit this, but it is not the system that is failing the students, but the students who are failing the system. The parents also, who blame everyone but themselves for their own children's shortcommings.

My high school experience consisted of honors and AP classes, so what I now see in the mainstream classes has my mind officially and thoroughly boggled. Why is it SO HARD for a student to turn off their electronic devices for a measley few hours a day? What is so important that these students must constantly converse and chatter- can they not shut their mouths for 10 minutes while the teacher gives the lesson? Has teeth-sucking become a language?

Students arrive 20 minutes late for class, hand in no homework, get 20s on their tests and react in anger and disbelief when they receive their report card. They shout obscenities and declare that "Mr. Soandso gave me an F!"

In the end, all anyone ever says is how teachers need better training, how there needs to be more funds for summer school and after school programs, how the system is in trouble. No. No, no, no, no, no! If I were in charge, I would simply fail students for being miserable students. By the time you are a teenager, you should know better. If not, then SOMEONE has to smack you in the face with a reality check.

 

If I could meet you in person, I'd shake your hand. What you've stated is 100% accurate, and it's unfortunate that not everyone places an emphasis on the greatness one can achieve through education. I have steadily noticed, in my few years as a teacher that students are becoming more and more "turned off" by education, and when I see what their home lives are like, I understand why.

-Matt

 

This is also the point where a good parent would step in and make sure the child is succeeding, but that's not happening. Many of these kids come from really messed up families so they have no support at home. School has become a free babysitting service, just as it was said.

I try and try to get my students involved, but the truth is that they are humans with free will, and if they choose not to do anything, that is their choice. It's unfortunate that we, as teachers, are the ones who are punished for the student's lack of positive upbringing.

When I first started posting on this board, I entered an argument about homeschooling. I was somewhat against homeschooling (and still partially am) based on the fact that students I have taught who were homeschooled learned very little. Then there is the other end of the homeschool spectrum, with parents who actually care and put forth effort to ensure their children succeed. I can easily support those parents, and I understand why they may have chosen to homeschool.

My school is not the greatest, mainly because we are in a very impoverished community. It is unfortunate that the students who truly wish to excel have to be held back by those students who just don't care.

-Matt

 

I was a volunteer for several years with the Dep of Energy "Science Bowl."
http://www.scied.science.doe.gov/nsb/default.htm
All the participants were teams of high school students and were very sharp and well versed in science (and I realized these kids were probably future doctors, scientists, and engineers).

Some were from private schools and some from public schools.

The one thing that stood out was that the majority were of Asian heritage, quite a few females, a only a few white males (this was in the Los Angeles area so I can't speak for other regions).

It is too bad these type competitions (the spelling bee is an exception) are not widely broadcast on TV rather than all the fake reality shows.

 

ASQ has quite a collection of books on quality in education. http://www.asq.org/quality-press/search-results/index.html?page=category&category=1bbbEducation
Some schools have implemented quality assurance schemes with success.

 

I agree with Rich on the votech side, especially when you look at our community/junior college system. A large part of what they teach used (30+ years ago) to be taught at junior & senior high school level.

When I was at that level back in Florida, the Junior hihg's all had wood & metal shops, and the high school had automotive & machine shops. Now here in California (home of Grease) only one "middle" school has a shop course, and only the continuation high school has any shops at all. To take what I could take in the 7th & 8th grade a student needs to graduate from high school an go to the local JC.

 

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Watching academically bright children challenges parents to help their own children become academically bright....and that's just too painful for many parents. Reality tv, in contrast, makes most people feel good about their lives (or at least better than the people on their tv!)

 

Ian: The one thing that stood out was that the majority were of Asian heritage...

John: The Univ. of California Berkeley used to base admission almost entirely on entrance exams and grades. At one point, they candidly announced that based on trends, the student body in the departments of science and engineering would soon be 80 to 85 percent Asian. Without saying this was clearly a bad thing (although some alumni groups did say that), they added a "social" element to the admissions process: club activity, sports, volunteer work, etc., and the Asian percentages began declining.

 

The problem:

A solution:

At one time such a dual track sytem may have flown in the face of the American educational ideal of equal opportunity for all students through the completion of high school. After finishing high school the 18 year-old could continue their education or enter the workforce where, depending on the job, they may receive technical training from an employer or through a union. That model is clearly broken and an earlier vocational track from grade 10 -12 would better prepare students to enter the job market with real-world skills.

The DL angle to all this is significant. For those students who choose the vocational over the college prepatory track, the criticism has always been that the possibility of attending college was effectively ended by a decision made at age 15.When I was in high school I remember my German teacher (a Catholic priest who had been a teacher in Germany) telling us how different the system was in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. I vividly recall him saying that the concept of late bloomers wa virtually unknown since low performers were steered to a vocational track. DL enables the vocational grad to pursue a bachelors degree on a part-time basis while working in a skilled job in the workforce.

 

I don't see why one must exclude the other. In my country after our equivalent of middle school you can choose the regular High School (basically preparing for college, basic Liberal Arts stuff) or the Technical High School, where you learn a specific trade.

But if you graduate from the technical high school you can still go to college if you want to.

 

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Of course! How many of us here are 20???

 

This was not the case when I left high school. I grew up in the UK. I left high school at age 15 to do an apprenticship (at that time university was out of the question). One had to take a few more years of high school and pass several ordinary and advanced level GCEs to get into university. I acquired engineering certificates from technical colleges. [The UK system has changed significantly since I left.]

When I moved to the USA I was able to put these engineering certificates towards my Excelsior degree.

 

It depends on the nature of a learner. I didn't feel like that but instead I think it's education system is worthier than many other countries' systems.