another student loan sob story

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/02/25/money-college-why-one-student-advises-avoiding-private-student/?icid=main|main|dl3|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walletpop.com%2Fblog%2F2010%2F02%2F25%2Fmoney-college-why-one-student-advises-avoiding-private-student%2F


Good story if you can stomach the end where she begs for Obama's help. I wonder if a $6000 English degree from TESC would have helped her meet her career goals?
(Do English undergrads who don't plan on going to grad school have career goals? No, seriously, I'm really wondering.)

 

I try to warn my students about this on a frequent basis. I even had one student who told me she was going to keep going to school because they would defer her loans while she is in school. I told her I don't know if they will continue to do that indefinately.

When kids are 19 or 20 years old, they can't imagine the debt they are accumulating and the day will come when they have to pay the piper. The lenders are much more aggressive now in their collection efforts.

 

It's obvious that some bad decisions were made by the borrower. I'm not going to defend her.

But I can't defend the lenders either. The borrower took out loans for undergraduate study, independently from parents or other relatives. She was probably under 21 years old -- not sufficiently "adult" to buy a six-pack of Bud Lite -- when she signed the papers the lenders put in front of her.

Yet despite her youth, her family's credit history, and the employment prospects for English majors:

This is predatory lending. The only reason that the loans were available under such conditions is because the lenders know that current laws will not allow the borrower to default. If the lenders had to shoulder some of the risk, their lending practices would become rational and conservative overnight.

 

I know this sounds so strong that it seems unrealistic, but it's almost impossible to overstate how toxic student loan debt can be. Borrowing recklessly at the age of 19 or 20 can literally destroy your financial future for the rest of your life -- and it can just as effectively destroy other important aspects of the rest of your life as well.

 

I just find it difficult to understand how people could not think it out a little bit. Okay, so you want a degree in the arts...well how about a degree in management with a minor in the arts? Enjoy what you want but be prepared when you graduate. By friend joined the Marines out of high school and signed for 8 years to put missiles on planes! now that sounds like fun but what will he do when he got out? People have to be a little more responsible for their future.

 

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I don't know- I just don't know. I know in my case, no one ever talked to me about borrowing, but it doesn't "seem" as if people who graduated from college back in the late 80's early 90's racked up as much debt. Maybe they did, but I don't remember it being that way. I have no data, just an aging memory, but it seems as if the children in school now have parents who are in the middle of the borrower-mentality-generation.

I know for me, when I went to school as a 17 year old, I borrowed about $8,000 and rec'd some grant and scholarship money- my family kicked in some. I paid $24,000 for my AOS degree in culinary arts. At that time, I bought a degree that was considered valuable in my field. I went to the top school, and walked into my first job out of school earning $24,000. So, my loan was paid off very quickly.
THAT SAME DEGREE is now up close to $60,000- and they push for you to stay on for the Bachelor of Professional Studies ($100K!!). People are actually doing it?!?!? $60K for an AOS degree!! Business is booming at the CIA! At a time when every school in the country has a culinary program (was not the case when I was a student) and food information is on the end of every computer (not the case when I was a student) and our world is flooded with talented chefs willing to take apprentices (not the case when I was a student) and people are still walking into jobs after graduation for $24,000 - only they don't understand how ridiculously irresponsible it is to borrow 4x more your potential annual salary. A few years ago I stopped writing letters of recommendation to my students who wanted to move up and out of the community college and apply to CIA or Johnson & Wales. The chef instructors are not even Certified Master Chefs anymore. It's just crazy. I'm too old, too removed from the show ponies, and know how to use a calculator- so I just shake my head in confusion.

 

Personally, I think it's both the student and the company's fault. But mostly the student's... Seriously, how can you not even google it to find out THE most basic things about a loan?? Wow.

I'm pretty seriously against student loans, but I do thing that borrowing responsibly is acceptable. Neither of my parents can really afford TESC for the next two years, so I'm planning on borrowing about 8k, but my mom is throwing a fit about it. I realize that borrowing nothing is the ideal situation, but 8k is really not that much, right??

 

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IMO, yes- borrowing 8k to go to TESC is too much if you are talking about an undergrad degree.
TESC, of all places, allows you to use the most cost effective credit completion you can find! Resourcefulness goes a LOOOONNNNGGGGG way at TESC.


I hope you are applying for a Pell Grant. You said you are planning on borrowing- which maybe means you have not yet borrowed. I'm happy to show you a few ways to cost-save at that school if you are interested.

 

He'll have the post-9/11 GI Bill and access to a free bachelors degree in any public school in the nation; provided he's responsible enough to go and graduate. It's a beautiful thing...

If nothing else, Marines of all specialities get excellent training in security and custiodial engineering. I always know that in a worst case scenario I could become a mall/bank security guard and/or a janitor.

 

This was 1985 so there was no 9/11 anything. I said, "I'll be a Marine - that is all that counts!"

 

Two years ago, there were two "payday loan" offices in our middle class (and, osternsibly, well-educated) town. Now there are at least five. What's going on here? Can people really be either that desperate or that stupid, or both?

--John Bear, who really likes
Steve Allen's book, Dumbth (http://tinyurl.com/SteveAllen)

 

Ahh I see. What does he do now?

 

All students that have a federal loan must go through a counseling session with a financial aid adviser (or online) before they give you your disbursement. I know this is not the case with private loans, but typically a student will take out private loans after they take out what they can with federal (at least they should.)

They must go through another one again when they graduate, so I don't buy the "I didn't know excuse."

 

Well, I can only speak for myself...

I finished the BA in English in 1994 because I figured it was the easiest degree to finish in the time I had set aside to accomplish that goal. I suppose History or something like that would have worked. But I read fairly quickly and am pretty good at writing papers. I just wanted a degree and had no intention of actually using it specifically.

My plan at the time was to go to seminary and become an overseas missionary. Eventually, I accomplished all of that and didn't use the English degree for several years, except to qualify for things that required a degree.

Eventually, circumstances led me to leave the mission field and full time ministry. I taught HS English for awhile (hated it). Got my Masters in English at University of West Alabama (before the new fangled electronic proctors) and now teach English at a community college.

I am considering applying to Texas Tech for their online PhD in Technical Communication and Rhetoric.

And that leads me back to the topic of the thread. I have never considered pursuing a doctorate because of the cost involved. I simply don't have time to be a traditional doctoral student, serving as a TA at the University of Texas or Texas A&M. I support a wife and three kids with my income, so I can't really leave my full time job. Paying for the education out of pocket is not an option. And I absolutely will NOT take out a student loan.

However, as a veteran from Texas who has exhausted all VA educational benefits, I qualify for the Hazelwood Act, which exempts me from tuition and most fees, as long as I take classes at a public Texas University. So I am seriously considering the Texas Tech option.

 

Don't know - I lost touch with him mnay years ago. I would assume he made a career of the Marines.

 

Hazlewood is a great tuition-exempt (150-hours) opportunity for Texas veterans; I completed a M.Ed. (Prairie View A&M) with it along with numerous educator certification hours, and I’m currently using Hazlewood benefits at Tarleton State. BTW, with every “online” program (e.g., UT-Permian Basin & Tarleton State) in which I’ve used the Hazlewood Act … there have been no additional fees whatsoever. I’ve even considered law school utilizing Hazlewood. Moreover as of Sept. 2009, the veteran can now transfer all or any unused Hazlewood hours to their children.

 

At Texas Tech, you would still be responsible for the student services fee. Right now, that means that for 6 or less hours per semester, the cost would be $68 and for more than 6 it would be $138. Not bad...

Still have to purchase books, but certainly it makes the cost very manageable. Glad to hear that someone here has used the Hazelwood effectively. I had misunderstood the way it worked in the past and thought it only worked up to 150 hours of school work, regardless of whether Hazelwood had been used to that point or not. Since I have a Masters, plus several other grad classes, I am around 180 or so hours currently. But I recently learned that the 150 doesn't start until you start using Hazelwood. That got me pretty fired up.

 

Exactly, Hazlewood doesn’t commence until you actually begin taking classes using Hazlewood, and you will have a total of 150-hours (undergrad and/or graduate) toward tuition exempt benefit; excluding textbooks. I did graduate work at Prairie View A&M in residence – there were a few small student fees separate from the Hazlewood Act; however so far, any purely online course work I’ve taken hasn’t incorporated any student fees. Graduate hours and Hazlewood are a great arrangement.

Note: One of my professors (tenured) at Prairie View had completed his Ph.D. using Hazlewood.

 

I think it all comes back to the government. They inflate the availability of loans with wonderful intent (I'm all for governments investing in education!) but the unexpected consequence is that as the supply of school money goes up the demand for the school service goes up and the school eventually raises their prices accordingly and the good effects are only temporary and at great cost. I'm not sure how one solves the problem now, it's much easier to create a program than to eliminate it. I appologize to anyone who disagrees with this statement, I could be looking at it all wrong.

I for one would be very reluctant to go more than a few thousand in debt for school unless I already had a job I was confident would be sufficient to pay off the debt (I don't). The assumption of getting a better job shortly after graduation is a risky chance to take. I am confident that unreasonable school prices will lead to programs like straighterline becoming extremely popular and changing the feild. You can count on the imagination of one or a few to fix things, and I am grateful to such innovative individuals.