Here is a link to a story - LEARN-&-EARN PLAN PAYS OFF. I think it is sad to pay kids to learn. I don't care how poor they are, if they really want to break the cycle of poverty -- get motivated, get smart, and get out! Where will it end - pay adults to be responsible and brush their teeth or comb their hair. How can we teach the youth to rely on themselves when when create this "reward" culture? If you won't pay me, I won't do it...even if it is for my best interest. By the way, I grew up poor so I can say these things from a position of knowledge.
Well, I suppose when kids see that their parents get paid for popping out babies and failing to get a job, I suppose they're going to want to emulate that behavior. While I concur that it is sad to have to pay kids to learn, perhaps if the educational system were reformed to include subjects kids could actually benefit from, perhaps they would be more motivated to learn. I love history to death, and that's one of the reasons I teach it. However, what I have to teach the kids is absolutely pointless in the scheme of things. They would be much better served learning to cook and keep track of their finances, along with trade skills. And with that, I step down from my soap box. -Matt
I'm with you This goes along with the accepted take-no-responsibility, touchy-feely curriculum instead of real work, getting stars, stickers, etc. for anything you do, including tying your own shoelaces, being co-operative, the list goes on and on. Thus kids expect a reward just for doing what we were expected to do as a matter of course, including getting decent grades. That encourages them to withhold the proper behavior and grades unless there's some payoff. Tsk tsk, not a good thing. I see it all the time -- parents, teachers, caregivers saying "good job!" for the most menial and minor thing the children do. Sheesh. Not how I reared my kid!
Hummm...well, you can pay them to jump through hoops- you can't pay someone to become "thirsty." It's like the workplace- sure we pay adults to work as employees, but it is the few who have the entrepreneurial drive that go out and create jobs/build our economy. They are the group really breaking the cycle of poverty- not those breaking out to be hourly employees. So, I guess I'm on the side of not paying- not because I think it's wrong, but because I think it's a waste of money.
Definitely you are absolutely right. In this way we are not generating interest towards education but instead of that we are generating interest towards money and that is not at all a good sign.
Ha ha, no. Custom-Writing had links in his/her signature to a service that offered to write theses and dissertations for you. (100 pages will cost you 3000 British pounds!) I thought it was ironic he was replying to a post about money and education. He also did the same on a couple of other threads. I guess the moderator removed those links. I wonder how many people use this kind of service?
>> LOL I know right!? The article didn't say, but I'm guessing that the tests the kids are getting big bucks to pass are the same ones used for the school's No Child Left Behind pass rate.
Yes, the state achievement tests are what is used to calculate if a State, School District and School meet Adequate Yearly Progress. Of course, the tests are horrible. For the most part, the tests aren't accurately testing if a student has mastered content materials. They're testing if a student can read, which most students have trouble with. That's why I've noticed that many of my students are extremely upset when they fail the test. They know the material and have demostrated that in class on numerous occassions. However, because the state decides to use terminology that we don't use on a daily basis, it makes understanding the tests difficult. Don't get me wrong. I'm all about increasing achievement. I just don't think these tests are the answer. Administrators are already finding loopholes in the system to get around it. -Matt
I'm not saying there isn't a problem with these particular tests, but the only way I can think of to objectively evaluate and compare student's progress is through tests. If we allow teachers to subjectively determine grades with objective standards (tests) bias will creep in. Real life has tests, many without a do-over. Job interviews, drivers license, professional practice (who wants a doctor that didn't pass a medical board), etc.
I agree. Real life does have tests. But for my subject, history, a multiple choice test is just ridiculous. It promotes rote memorization for the purpose of passing a test. That is NOT learning. -Matt
>> I think there is often a romantic assumption that there are educational gods who somehow, somewhere have this power to objectively evaluate everyone and know best how to educate all children. (and gosh darn, they all happen to work in for our government- how DID we get so fortunate?) Why are the teachers, who you accuse of bias, less able than this mysterious group of "objective evaluators?" Who are these people, where are they? Who trained them? I'm not arguing with perrymk's challenge- I'm simply trying to wrap my brain around how we got to this place where we blindly assign authority to anyone calling themselves an expert.
There is a bigger issue for me these tests and NCLB in particular are leaving children behind. The chronic and natural low performers on areas tested that these children and young people are not good at. My case is simple common sense: 1. Not all children are average in fact in a similar group of 100 children 25% will be gifted and the same number very low performers on the same test. 2. Not everyone is average in everything even here those with doctorates likely are not good at something - swimming, a sport, making art, singing etc. 3. Many areas they don't test for seem vital to employment in many fields for some examples: work ethics, social aptitude, mechanical know-how, organizational awareness, artistic aptitude, musical aptitude and the like. I just want to know where is Plan B for students that ,such as Florida, don't test well enough as seniors and don't even get an ordinary High School Diploma? It pisses me off since I would never ,under the standards used now, have gotten my diploma I never did get algebra and geometry. Writing was always a challenge due to some natural problems with my reasoning when doing so. But I managed to earn a decent living all my life. What I mean and I'm sorry if this is not as organized as I would like is that what do we do with a student that is at the bottom 20% of natural ability in mathematics and literacy? And its not a disability limitation and they are otherwise normal and may have gifts that are known but don't "count" on the tests. It seems to me paying students is not solving the problem of unreasonable expectation of politicians, educators and parents on what a child is really capable of. Want an example if you ever watched the TV show Rosanne- Mark is it. He was amazing learning hands-on and had ample mechanical skills and trade knowledge. But clearly was seen as a dummy by some just because he has not the best mind for learning things from books. Is that bad? Shouldn't school be teaching the Marks to do a trade or at least hone work skills in High School? Well for I think that is a yes or what good are they for.
I was born so poor that a "friend" looked at my birth certificate and commented on how 'skid row' my early years must have been. Yes that person was a douche, but it was really obvious that it was an area where "poor people" lived. But, I've never really seen anyone make a living for not getting a job or for having children. WIC? Sure. TANF? Very little (something like $100/month and you have to prove your job applications). Food Stamps? Of course. But general assistance isn't especially forthcoming, and when it is awarded, it's extremely tiny amounts (think $300, assuming you aren't also getting TANF etc). It's not a myth per se, but I'd say that it's greatly inflated based on my experience. And plenty of people do break the cycle and move on with their lives -- but most people feel loyalty to the people who put them in poverty in the first place (family). I don't, which is very unusual and which I credit my success to. ~G
It's not a myth per se, but I'd say that it's greatly inflated based on my experience. And plenty of people do break the cycle and move on with their lives -- but most people feel loyalty to the people who put them in poverty in the first place (family). I don't, which is very unusual and which I credit my success to. ~G>> I think this is very insightful, and I would agree with you completely.
It is actually sad and unfortunate. Learning should come from heart and it is the responsibility of teachers to inculcate a love for learning in children.
