what are pay grades and steps?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by cookderosa, Sep 21, 2008.

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  1. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    Can someone with military know-how explain how the pay grade and steps work? I looked at the chart, and I understand that the grade is a predetermined starting salary...but what's a step?
    Also, on some usajobs.gov listings, the pay range is very strange- sometimes the range might be huge (77,000 to 101,000). Any insight?
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Pay grades go along with rank (E-3 is Sergeant, O-3 is a Captain, etc.) while steps are also referred to as time in grade or the time you've been in that pay grade.

    For example, someone can enter the Army as an E-3 if they have sufficient college credits, but the pay they earn during basic training is significantly less than what they're going to earn after a couple of years in the E-3 pay grade.

    For federal civilian jobs, I believe the difference in pay is due to education, prior federal service, etc.
     
  3. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    <<For example, someone can enter the Army as an E-3 if they have sufficient college credits, but the pay they earn during basic training is significantly less than what they're going to earn after a couple of years in the E-3 pay grade.>>


    Is that because they move onto the next "step" on the chart?


    <<For federal civilian jobs, I believe the difference in pay is due to education, prior federal service, etc.>>

    I'm talking strictly civilian. So, hypothetically, if a person is hired for a job at G7, they would be at step 1 until they build seniority? Or are you saying that they are hired at G7 -no step- and then their education, prior federal service, etc determines the starting step?
     
  4. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Correct.

    That's my understanding; a friend of mine is a federal police officer who has a GS rating, and while the pay grade eventually tops out (GS-12 I believe), he still got raises within the GS-12 pay grade with time in grade service credit until he hit top step. Once you "top out" within grade, the only raises are cost of living, etc.
     
  5. ewillmon

    ewillmon New Member

    For an idea of what the GS-scale looks like, you can check out http://www.opm.gov/oca/08tables/html/gs.asp

    Each federal job has a starting grade depending on educational background, experience, etc. For my job I was hired at a higher pay grade due to my GPA and my rank in my graduating class. I was hired at a GS-7 level, instead of GS-5. The full performance level of my position was GS-11. So my first year I was paid as a GS-7/step 1. Every 12 months I received a promotion to a higher level, from 7 to 9 and finally 11. When I reached the 11 level, I was considered a journeyman. Once you reach that level you stay at that level and move across the steps. The first few steps are earned on a yearly basis, then every 2 years, then every 3 years until you max out.

    Does that make sense? I hope so.

    Oh another thing, the range is the salary from step 1 to step 10.
     
  6. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    >>

    Ok, that's what I had reversed. I misunderstood and thought you always stayed a the same grade, only advancing through steps. That makes more sense now.

    Thanks guys, you both helped me out.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    None of the above is correct. First, there is no "rank" in federal civilian employment. One does not "rank" over someone else, even if one's grade is higher. The only persons who "rank" over someone are in that person's supervisory chain. Unlike the military, a GS-15 doesn't "rank" a GS-14.

    Second, pay grades reflect the job one is assigned, nothing more. One isn't really a GS-11, for example. Rather, one is working in a position graded at GS-11. It is common to say things like, "I'm an 11," but not technically accurate. One can move up or down grades based upon jobs one might take. (I interviewed someone recently who used to be in a GS-14 slot, but is now in a GS-12.) One may move up to a higher slot after serving a minimum time (usually 1 year) at the next lowest grade level. With the exception of some developmental slots, however, one does not get "promoted" in one's job. You move up by taking another position with a higher grade level.

    Third, steps are not "time in grade." They are higher levels of pay in the same grade. One can change steps in 4 ways: (1) move up in time with satisfactory job performance; (2) move up faster because of superior performance; (3) move up in grade with a new job, which will change your step in that grade level--not always will you start at Step 1 at the higher grade level; and (4) don't move up in step at all because of poor job performance.

    Finally, this statement, "For federal civilian jobs, I believe the difference in pay is due to education, prior federal service, etc." is completely inaccurate. Those factors have nothing to do with determining step levels. Education level will affect one's eligibility to interview for some jobs. Prior service will, too. But neither have anything to do with step levels, which are all about pay.

    I recently selected a GS-13 for a GS-14 position. He was at Step 8. They offered him Step 5 as a GS 14. Why not Step 1? Because that would have meant a serious pay cut. They calculated his current pay, added a raise (about 8% in his case), then determined what GS-14 step level would be equivalent. That's what they offered him.

    Even the statement above about military rank is wrong. "Captain," for example, isn't a "rank." It is a "grade." The corresponding pay grade is O-3. Neither "Captain" nor "O-3" are "ranks." "Rank" is one's relative position compared to another person. A major outranks a captain, for example. But his/her grade is major, not his/her rank.

    Hope this helps.
     
  8. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator

    Things must have changed since you retired. Here is an enlisted example.

    Master Sergeant is a rank. E-7 is a paygrade. Official Air Force publications such as The Enlisted Force Structure (AFI 36-2618) clearly state this.

    Here is an example from that reference:

     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Go back and read the entire thread, Rich; the initial question was;

    Can someone with military know-how explain how the pay grade and steps work?

    Anyone with basic reading comprehension skills would take that as a question on how military pay grades work. Within the context of that question, what I wrote is 100% correct.

    Incorrect. In the Army, an E-4 can be either a Specialist or a Corporal. E-4 is the pay grade, Specialist and Corporal are ranks, with the Corporal being the ranking person because it's a leadership position. Ditto for pay grade E-8; that could be a Master Sergeant (rank) or a First Sergeant (rank).

    This is especially true with pay grade E-9, with Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, and Sergeant Major of the Army being ranks, and I don't think I need to tell you the SMA outranks every other E-9 in the food chain.
     
  10. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

     
  11. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

     
  12. ewillmon

    ewillmon New Member

    Actually what I said was very correct. I was referring to the pay grade, not steps within the grade. For my job, I was hired at a GS-7 level, instead of a GS-5, due to my GPA/Class rank. If I had a masters degree, I would have been hired at a GS-9 level. Also prior work experience could be used in lieu of education.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Wrong. The OP specifically cited usajobs.gov, which is a site for civilian jobs. Also, you're the one who brought up your ignorance regarding the federal civilian system. I just put in the correct perspective. You're snarky little comment about "basic reading comprehension skills" certainly applies to you, as it so often seems to do. You're so often wrong, Bruce, that you have no choice but to make comments like that. They're all you typically have.

    And what you did write was absolutely, 100%, ignorant and incorrect. You don't have a clue about what you're writing about, and no experience with the topic, either.

    At least Adrienne and I can disagree in a civil manner. Thanks to her for the reference on "rank" vs. "grade." Very cool. I was talking about common custom, but she's absolutely right in her citation. Probably just a personal bias on my part.

    But Bruce? Puhleeze. Get one right for a change. And get off my case--because you know it's personal with you. It has been ever since your stupid, imbicilic comment about Palin the "hockey mom." You can't accept that (a) you were wrong about the term and (b) you were wrong to accuse me of foul play for using it. You've been an unsolicited jerk.

    In the words of Truman Capote (about Jack Kerouac), "that's not writing, that's just typing!
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    Precisely, they would have graded the position as a GS-9 and paid you accordingly. Instead, they graded it as a GS-7 because you'd demonstrated your ability to perform at that higher level.

    Also, they could grade it at a lower level--a GS-7, say--but offer you a step higher than Step 1 because of your previous experience, previous pay level, the need to give you a competitive offer, etc. The steps are a good tool to adjust a new employee's starting salary to be commensurate with what he/she should earn.
     
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    In the second part of the message, which is why I made the distinction between military and civilian.

    Snarky? Go back and read the hissy fit you just typed above, then get back to me about snarky.

    Okay Rich, please point out exactly what it was I typed about the military rank structure which is incorrect. Specifics, please.

    1. Are the ranks of Specialist and Corporal not in the pay grade of E-4?

    2. Are the ranks of Master Sergeant and First Sergeant not in the pay grade of E-8?

    3. Are the ranks of Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, and Sergeant Major of the Army all not in the pay grade of E-9?

    Here's a chart to help you along;

    http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/enlisted.html

    So, what is it about that which is absolutely, 100%, ignorant and incorrect?

    Again, specifics please.

    Personal? You bring up something from a thread I had completely forgetten about, call me names (which I have not done to you) but it's personal with ME?

    In your words, puhleeze. :rolleyes:
     
  16. -kevin-

    -kevin- Resident Redneck

     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Bruce:

    You're an over-officious jerk who cannot possibly understand his role on this board. You've made several personal remarks towards me, and I've chosen to stand up to them. You're a moderator who doesn't understand how that applies to him. Worse, you're an idiot. A freakin' idiot who chooses to announce it far and wide. I'm only saying this because you've directed your idiocy towards me. Otherwise, I really couldn't care less. Your inability to apply the culture's standards to yourself as a participant makes me wonder what kind of cop you are--probably a power-hungry and abusive clown, I'm sure. At least, that's what I've heard.
     
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Well Rich; the very fact we're even having this discussion proves you wrong, because if any of that were true I would have banned you a long time ago, being the power-hungry and abusive clown I am. :rolleyes:

    As a matter of fact; if you can even respond to this, that will prove I'm neither "power-hungry" or an "abusive clown", right?

    Rich??? You there???

    Sometimes you're wrong, Rich. It's not a character flaw or anything else worth launching into an insult-laden tirade over; it's a part of life. It happens to everyone once in awhile. Deal with it.

    Call me crazy Rich, but I suspect the people I arrest aren't in the same social circles as you. If I'm mistaken with that assumption, please let me know.

    BTW...you still haven't provided the specifics as to where I'm supposed to be wrong in my previous posts in this thread.
     
  19. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    Rich and Bruce

    You've taken this thread to a personal level - perhaps you could either discontinue or carry on via e-mail, as not everyone is interested...
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I had already decided not to respond to his very late post. I shall indicate this by responding to yours instead, and to do so with a "thank you."
     
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