More colleges move toward optional SATs

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by AV8R, May 30, 2008.

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  1. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

  2. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    How's nice! I didn't take the SAT, but I used the alternative way to get into four-year college. Let me know what you have any information about GRE and GMAT is optional for Columbia University, Harvard University, MIT, Princeton University, University of Southern California, Standford University, and etc.

    :) THanks.
     
  3. AdAstra

    AdAstra Member

    Hmmm....so much for the drivel about not needing to prepare for such tests. I am reminded of the GAMSAT (equivalent to the GMAT) here in Oz, where they keep spreading the misinformation that preparation will be fruitless, and yet it seems those who take preparation courses are doing better than those who do not.

    The Scouts have always been right: "always be prepared" :D
     
  4. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    When I was fresh out of community college, I scored really high in math. Why? Because it was fresh in my mind from all the courses I'd taken.

    Twenty years later... after not using any math for those 20 odd years... I took another test and did pretty bad in math. Why? Because I hadn't studied or used those same math concepts for over 20 years.

    Conclusion: preparation and practice makes all the difference in the world.
     
  5. PhD2B

    PhD2B Dazed and Confused

    I look forward to the day when standardized tests such as the SAT, GRE, and GMAT are not required by colleges. Speaking for myself [although I'm sure there are a lot of people in my situation], I do poorly on standardized tests no matter how much I prepare. I have no problem with coursework at the undergraduate and graduate levels, but if my past and current college admissions had been solely based on one of these standardized tests, I wouldn't have been given the opportunity to earn a bachelor's or master's degree let alone the opportunity to earn a doctorate.
     
  6. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    The same thing is true with GPAs. Highschools are (arguably) "biased" against families that can't afford to push their kids to get high grades.

    Universities are peculiar beasts. On one hand, they sell a product that's elitist by its very nature, diplomas that proclaim that their holders are more competent, more capable, better, than other people. Witness the neverending fascination with relative university ranking and prestige. But at the same time, universities are bastions of the political left and love to pose as egalitarian champions of the common person. Obviously, those two visions aren't always compatible.

    Regarding SATs, I kind of like the approach the California State University has long taken. They have what they call an "eligibility index". If an applicant has a highschool GPA above 3.0 (not hard to achieve), they don't need to take the SAT (or if they do, they can be admitted with any score). If a student gets above 1200 on the SAT, then he or she can be admitted with any GPA. Kids below 3.0 or 1200 can make up the deficiency with satisfactory corresponding SAT/GPA scores (there's a little table in the admissions section of the university catalog).

    An older version of that policy is what got me into college. I didn't take highschool seriously and spent most of my time hanging out, graduating with a 2.6 GPA. I was reasonably intelligent and well-read (I just never did my homework) and despite going into the SAT totally cold with no cramming and a 'who cares' attitude, I got about 1300. (I think that my blase attitude kept me from choking.) So I was accepted into all of the CSUs that I applied to. If it hadn't been for the SAT, I might never have attended university.

    It's basically moot for DL anyway, since many universities waive SATs and GPAs for adult applicants who have been out of highschool more than x years.

    At the California State Universities, it's currently 25 years old and above. These applicants just need a highschool diploma (or a GED or a California Highschool Proficiency Exam) and no previous college enrollment. (If they've taken classes elsewhere, they are treated as transfer students.)

    University of California is a different species, more competitive and selective. So here in California, the two conflicting visions of higher education (elitist vs egalitarian) have to some extent resolved into two different university systems.
     
  7. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    I have the same problem I tend to miss by one point or two of the minimum score to pass!
     
  8. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    According to this fascinating article titled "The Case Against Standardized Tests," the reason you do not do well on these tests but earn strong grades is because you are a deep thinker. Interesting stuff....

    http://testcritic.homestead.com/files/standardized_tests.html
     
  9. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    >>

    I find this so ironic. I thought that the SAT was an "aptitude" test? (sarcasm) If the test was valid and reliable by measuring what it was intended to measure, preparation would be irrelevant.

    I think testing is certainly a skill, and some people are simply better at it for a variety of reasons. I don't doubt that a prep class would help many people earn a few points, but we all know that the SAT isn't the determining predictor of our success in college. I'm confused by California's logic that Billy brought up:

    "they don't need to take the SAT (or if they do, they can be admitted with any score). If a student gets above 1200 on the SAT, then he or she can be admitted with any GPA."

    California is saying that the person who is capable but unwilling is an acceptable "risk." I think many people are an excellent "risk" for college completion. I would argue that admission isn't a predictor of success. In my experience, the barriers to completion are not academic rigor.

    If enough noise is made, I have no doubt that public schools systems will start to fund free SAT preparation programs.
     

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