Hi All, I just got a traffic ticket this morning. The police officer said I didn't make a complete stop at the stop sign, but I thought I did. If I go to the court, what's the chance that I will be able to get the ticket waived? It's really the officer's words against mine. Your advice is highly appreciated.
I think (I am a foreigner) you don´t have a chance. Plus it isn´t probably worth the hassle unless you want to make a point to the American Justice system, but that is expensive and risky. If you´re a minority, or a woman you may look into human rights organizations for advice but I am afraid most would tell you to forget about it, pay the silly fine, and move on. My two cents.
You may as well go to their kangaroo court. If the cop doesn't show, your case may be dismissed. Also, call and ask for a continuance, meaning a later court date. You ought to be able to get the first one without cause (subsequent ones will require good reason). By delaying your court date, you increase the chance that Officer Friendly isn't there. Even if the cop is there and you're convicted (because, yes, his word is worth more than yours to them), you can ask for leniency, meaning you're likely to pay a smaller fine than someone who just pays by mail. Good luck, -=Steve=-
Hi Steve, Thanks for the info... What is the chance that the cop will not show up? Even if I get leniency, I will still need to go to traffic school to have the charge dismissed right???
We (cops) don't make this stuff up. If we pull someone over, it's not for a trumped up, fabricated reason, just so we can write a ticket. Granted, whether or not the citizen should have been given a "verbal warning" instead of a ticket, well, that's a different ball of wax. But again, we don't make these violations up, just so we can write innocent citizens a ticket. I have never seen a stop sign case get lost by an officer, but I'm sure that it has happened somewhere. However, I have seen citizens contest stop sign tickets and have seen the defendant vehemently argue that they came to a full and complete stop at a stop sign. When the officer tells the judge that he has the citizen on video running the stop sign, I have never seen a citizen change his or her testimony, even with the threat of showing the videotape in court. After the videotape is shown in court, citizens' always have the exact same responce e.g. "Well, I thought I had stopped." They never back down. Perception is reality in the eyes of a citizen. Sometimes they honestly believe that they didn't commit a violation and there is nothing that you can say or do to change their mind (in some instances), unless you show it to them on videotape. Cell phone use is a perfect example of this. People are so busy yapping on their cell phones that they don't realize that they are committing traffic violations. You can pull them over for traffic violations, but they will vehemently deny that they committed any traffic violations because out of the sincerity of their hearts, they honestly don't realize that they committed traffic violations because they were too busy paying attention to their cell phone call!!! Only videotape shuts them up.
Hi me again, Thanks for your info... It's always good to know how the other side views the situation. To tell you the truth, I don't think the officer saw me when I made my first complete stop (half to one foot behind the stop line). His view's actually blocked by the trees and bushes, and I confirmed this on my way to work this morning. I think he was watching for the cars coming from the other direction where the traffic's the heaviest in the morning. Anyway, after I made my stop, I accelerated and at that time saw the police car. I stepped on the brake for a second (half to one foot pass the stop line) and then took off. The reason why I stepped on the brake for the second time was because I thought the police car was coming my direction. And I strongly believe that's when the officer saw me and thought that I didn't make a complete stop. Do you think I have a case?
I do believe you, but if the officer shows up to court and says he saw you run the stop sign, then it puts the judge in the middle and, generally, judges usually side with the officer, unless there are special circumstances to corroborate the defendant's testimony, in which case the judge will side with a defendant. Perception is reality in the eye of the beholder. If the officer believes he saw a violation, then that's what he'll testify to. Are your circumstances enough for a judge to believe??? I can't answer for a judge!!!
HI me again, Thanks for your prompt response... If I took some pictures from where the officer was at, would that convince the judge if the pictures show that the officer didn't really have a view of the area behind the stop sign?
It sounds more convincing than not doing it. Have you considered asking a local attorney? I don't know where you are, but some states have "traffic clinic" type law practices. -=Steve=-
Here in the south there's a long standing history of "Bubba the deputy" doing exactly that. I know some that make a big joke of messing with people. I've known two law enforcement officers who tell me that it's common practice to add 5-10 MPH to a fast speeding ticket because "the court is going to drop that much..." All law enforcement officers are not the pilars of integrity that we'd like them to be. A quick look at http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=police+officer+arrested&btnG=Search+News will show what I mean. Further, law enforcement officers are human like the rest of us an do make mistakes. Some of them (every officer knows a few) are dumb as a bag of rocks. It is noticed when citizens argue citations given by a particular officer at a greater frequency than others.
They must do things radically different down South. No police officer I work with is going to risk a perjury charge, and therefore their career, for a pissy moving violation that means nothing, in the grand scheme of things. As a matter of fact, probably 90% of cops who work in a city view traffic enforcement as little more than an annoyance....something that must be done to satiate the brass. When doing traffic, I don't even stop anyone unless they're going 10+ over the limit. That reduces aggravation, as well as blowing to hell the "speedometer error" excuse. Even then, I almost always give out warnings, unless the person I stopped wants to argue, or is just a general jerk. If they appeal it and win, who cares? I made $140 in overtime for going to court during the day. He sure showed me.
Two cents worth: Pay the fine, however when you have your court date, admit your guilt and ask the judge and the office if they can reduce the fine and/or the point violation. About 2000, I was pulled over for burning up the road ( 52 in a 35 zone); it was early morning before daybreak. Since cops dont like walking up on dark vehicles, I turned on the interior lights and kept both hands high on the steering wheel as a courtesy. Being in South Carolina I didnt pay the fine outright and instead decided to attend my court date; The reason was not so much the dollar fine but instead to hopefully reduce the points taken from my license...here in SC you can have a two point violation and it wont increase your drivers insurance, but a speeding ticket which usually carries a 4 point violation will run your insurance costs to the top of a flag pole for several years! The cop asked me if I knew why I was being pulled over and I said yea, "I was kinda burning the road up going to work", then I asked if he could give me the best "shake" he could, he retured with the ticket but it was the minimum amount they can fine ya...could have been several hundred dollars, but was around sixty. Well the courtesy paid off again, I went before the judge/magistrate; admited guilt and asked if point violation could be reduced, he looked over to the cop and he simply nodded with a smile. I acknowledeged his consideration with another smile and a nod. I then went and paid my minimum fine, and walked away with a two point violation and no high insurance costs! Rules in traffic violations: Never argue with them Give them some respect, by thinking of their safety, pull far over where they dont have to step out into traffic Interior lights on, window down etc. Make sure they can see your hands....no groping around in the glove box or for wallet on your hip until he asks or you're telling him so. Usually yer' ass is guilty so you might as well smile... and never, never ever be cute with them and I bet they will go easier on ya! Good luck, Gavin
I wasn't going to respond to Turner's allegation that most (or many) cops add 10 to 15 mph on top of what a speeder was doing because, well, it's not a battle worth arguing. However, I agree with your assessment 100%. We, as cops, have no reason to add 10 to 15 mph on top of a legitimate speeding ticket. There is no benefit for the officer. In the old days in Florida, prior to my entry into law enforcement, officers got paid based on the number of arrests that they made, but those days are long gone. I think they ended around the 1950s??? Running traffic can be very unpleasant because if you write someone a ticket, then they scream bloody murder, but if you arrest them, then they become as silent as a lamb. You'd think it would be the other way around, but it's not. Go figure. I don't even stop people for speeding any more. In the 1980s, I was a traffic officer and, to this very day, I am still burnt out on writing speeding tickets. About the only traffic ticket that I'll write is for a red light violation because that's my pet peeve. I can be sitting at a red light, waiting for it to turn green... and then it turns green, so it's safe for me to go, right??? The intersection is 100% clear and I have a green light and ***POOF*** then someone will run their red light before my very eyes. After stopping them, 12 out of 13 times, the most common excuse is "It was yellow." Riiiiiiiiiiite. Sign here and press hard because there are five copies. LOL If a citizen begins to argue or curse or yell after we stop them, then what do they expect from us??? Do they expect me to say "Oh, I'm so sorry for pulling you over. Here's your drivers license back. Have a nice day." < backs slowly away from the driver, while bowing several times in subservience and humility > If a person argues with me, then it's an automatic ticket. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. Not even a maybe. There have been many times when I was simply going to give a citizen a verbal warning, but his nasty attitude resulted in a citation or, in those push-to-shove cases, an arrest. I detest going to traffic court. Hate it!!! I know this is going to sound hard to believe, but I've seen citizens lie while under oath.
