Declining Salvation Army donations.....

For the past couple of years the Salvation keeps talking about how donations to their bell ringers is down. They usually chalk it up to some kind of donor fatigue. Today, as I passed yet again another Salvation Army kettle without any money to make a donation it hit me another reason for the drop in donations.

Quite simply, I carry very little cash on me these days. I will donate what little I do have but unlike in the past when I would donate at almost every one I walked by I will be out of cash after a couple or be down to a single big bill because I do not spend cash. In this day and age of cash back credit cards I use it for everything from a trip to McDonalds to a grocery shopping. It doesn't make sense not to if you use discipline and can pay it off every month and credit cards are safer than carrying cash when you shop. However, that also wipes out the supply of change that people would in the past to drop into the kettles. And it's not just me, I know a lot of people who do the same thing.

Before you start, I still donate through payroll deduction at work and give a lot at ecology and wildlife events. For special things like Katrina and the tsunami's I give online with, you got it, a credit card.

Maybe the Salvation Army needs a new plan....

 

I NEVER walk past a Salvation Army kettle without throwing in at least a few dollars. If I don't have any cash (rare), I'll hit an ATM and come back.

Unfortunately, I think they're also the victims of political correctness. I've seen way too many companies ban kettles outside their businesses, which I've never understood, because it's a public relations disaster.

 

Are you sure....

On Black Friday I walked past at LEAST a dozen bell ringers some of them 2 or 3 times about the first three got something before I was down to pennies in cash. If you do that good for you, but I bet most people don't since ATM's aren't always near kettles.

My idea, try to partner with an an ATM chain to put an option on the system to donate $1, $5 or set your amount while ringing up your cash. They could do the same thing with retailers. Almost all use the self service credit card machines that could easily query the payee.

Remember, there is always somebody ready to sue these days if they allow the Salvation Army to solicit but refuse to le a more unsavory organization do the same thing. Still, I haven't seen that. If anything, there are more in Springfield these days than there was just a few years ago. In a typical lunch run I will walk by 3 or 4 and that is every day. On a real shopping trip a dozen is the lowest number I will walk by...

 

I never walk past a Salvation Army kettle without reminding myself that this is a religious denomination.

I prefer to support only religious works that teach pure doctrine as my church sees it. The Salvation Army does not. Are Salvationists fine people? I am sure they are. But we do not agree, and our disagreements are profound.

Truth matters.

My "relief" donations go to two sources.

Minor source: the relief works of my own denomination and its sister churches.

Major source: secular relief organisations such as the Red Cross.

My church is composed of poor people. I would like to send somebody out with a kettle to guilt grocery shoppers into giving money to my church and its emergency relief efforts. But we do NOT use guilt or arm-twisting to encourage donations by church members. Why should we depart from the Gospel to do this to the public at large?

Our approach may not be "effective" by comparison. But it respects the integrity of our own givers, and it respects the integrity of the secular as well as the sacred sphere.

I wish the Salvationists well, but also well out of my face and well out of my wallet. If members of the general public choose to support them, fine. Not us--in both senses. We don't ask for the general public's money--ever. We don't support doctrinally differing religious bodies--ever.

It is not the general public's guilt-driven responsibility to support Wisconsin Synod charitable and relief organisations. It is a Gospel-incited opportunity for WELS Lutherans--and such members of the general public who would like to do so--to support these organisations if their free sense of stewardship of God's gifts to them points them in that particular direction. If not, not.

Let each person do as his or her informed conscience sees fit.

 

??? Hey Unk....! Help me out here. As a fellow Lutheran, where are these profound disagreements between what the Salvation Army believes and what Lutherans believe? I've never heard this before, and am curious to hear your take on it.

 

Re: Are you sure....

They always are around here.

 

The Salvation Army has never turned us away, at any hour of the day or night, when we needed to shelter a homeless family. They've never once asked the religious preference of those in need.

The Red Cross is a bloated bureaucracy that I don't trust with my money.

 

Salvationists don't baptize nor do they serve Communion.

Also, women hold rank in the Salvation Army.

 

Well, I certainly respect Uncle Janko's views but I have to say, I have always had a tremendous amount of respect for the Salvation Army and they are one of the very few organizations to which I will contribute.

The Army, in my opinion, comes the closest to the Gospel in terms of helping their fellow human beings than nearly every other denomination, including the ones to which I have belonged over the years.

I admire their willingness to go to places to minister very few will venture. They have helped more folks, I believe, in proportion to their size, than most other denominations.

The history of their founder, William Booth, is simply fascinating! He reached out to the poor of London and was spat upon, urinated upon, mission houses were vandalized, etc.

I have great admiration for him and his wife, Catherine.

 

Two short answers.

Carl: Salvationists believe in perfect sinlessness attainable in this life. They see the Sacraments as having no usefulness. As a Lutheran, you will understand the depth of our disagreement with them on these crucial matters.

Bruce: I did not, nor do I care to, impugn either the honour or the effectiveness of the Salvationists' relief and emergency efforts. Those efforts are obviously sans peur et sans reproche.

No confessional Lutheran denies that heterodox religious bodies or non-Christian religious bodies or secular organisations accomplish much that is good in the civic sphere. But we do not care to support with our money religious organisations with which we are not in thoroughgoing religious agreement.

The Red Cross, for better or worse, was my personal choice in the aftermath of Katrina; I donated half a month's salary to them; my own medical expenses prohibited me donating more, as I should have liked to do.

I do not claim to be an expert in assessing the financial efficiency of secular charitable organisations. Far from it! My point was hardly to extol the Red Cross in this regard at the expense of the Salvationists. Each person in our fellowship must make his or her non-religious donations according to their own best fiscal judgment and social intentions. My only role in such matters is to point out when there are religious implications to such choices. Beyond that, so far as confessional Lutherans are concerned, they are, and ought to be, on their prudential own.

But our principles about *religious* fundraising and support remain what they are. And the Salvation Army remains first and foremost a religious denomination. I should not expect persons who do not share our religious views to share our religious cavil at contributing to another religious organization which is antagonistic to deeply-held views of ours. American generic Christianity and American civic religion have their own views, and those who adhere to them their own consciences, and those consciences their own, one trusts, formation in goodwill, and that formation in goodwill its natural-law-grounded concern for the welfare of others. May we all act according to conscience, to go against which Dr Martin Luther said long ago is neither safe nor right.

Best wishes to you.

Janko

 

Good evening, Uncle Janko,

I guess the WELS could never accuse you of being an apostate, could they?

Blessings to you, my friend.

 

Seems to be some scandalous revelation every several years with the Red Cross.

Any experience with Volunteers of America?

 

I used to work for the VOA. They are a very poor organization and I am surprised they are still in existence. They ran two shelters in Terre Haute and they are now both closed.

For those who may not know, the VOA was founded by William Booth's son, Ballington, and his wife, Maude. William founded the SA.

 

And to you (and the other posters on this thread also), my friend.

I note that decimon has mentioned another religious organization, the VOA--which broke from the Salvationists over the sacrament issue, along with a family dispute within the Booth dynasty. Personally, I rather like the low-key style of the VOA. They are often overlooked next to their bigger and flashier kindred. (Happens to us, too.)

 

I contribute to many things including the little coffee cans found throughout my travels at convenience stores. The larger effort that is done yearly within the government is the Combined Federal Campaign. When deciding on who and/or what I will make a donation to I always look at the administrative overhead percentage: Many charities are listed at the url below with those percentages listed. These charities are only those that have registered with the government and requested the support. I am sure there are others out there just as worthy that do not participate in the CFC program.

http://www.cfcnca.org/search/

I actually believe that part of the Salvation Army's issues may be related to all the contributing that has gone on for multiple disasters, support for the war effort, and general economic concerns.

 

Jimmy & uncle janko,

Thanks for the skinny on the VOA. I know nothing about them other than that I've seen good ratings for them in terms of getting money to work for people rather than for mysterious doings.

 

Think of the Salvation Army as two separate organizations. They do. They have a church branch and a "secular" branch. The money that we put into those red pots goes to fund the "secular" branch -- social services. Yes, their faith informs and defines all aspects of what they do. But they do not use money that goes into their "secular" fund for proselyting purposes or for running their churches.

I don't agree with every little thing that Salvationists believe. But I have no trouble supporting what they do. And they do it so much better than I do. And they consistently do it scandal free.

Perhaps we ought to design for them a red pot with a credit card reader attached.

 

Charity is not a religious issue with me....

Frankly, if the religious organization keeps its religion separate from its charitable work I do not let its views on God weigh on my decision to give them money (unless they are nut jobs, satanist's, nazi's or something). Granted, that separation can be hard to determine. Any administrative cost over 10-20% is a red flag to me. That information is usually available online.

One thing that does bother me is that the Salvation Army has kettles at the Wal Mart in my home town. I go there a lot and it is the primary place I donate (the aformentioned problem applies mostly to the city where I work or shop). Since I usually know the bell ringer I invariably stop, chat and make a donation. However, as far as I know they do no charitable work in the town or local communities. Small towns like ours are invariably overlooked by the big charities like SA and the UW. Charitable giving in our community is handled by the local churches and fraternal organizations and since our need is quite large I would like to see that locally collected money go to the local communities instead of to large cities where they have other resources.

As far as the kettle with the reader attached. That is not as farfetched as it seems. The already have the wave cards that you simply wave by the sensor on the gas pumps. They could have a kettle that allows for the ringer to push a button for the donation the donator waves their card and the bucket shoots out the receipt. Shouldn't take more than 30 seconds. Gotta love technology....

 

1.Karl Rove brokered this deal . . . apparently canceled after the Post publicized it:
"According to an internal Salvation Army memo obtained by The Washington Post, the Salvation Army said it would actively support the President's faith-based initiatives in exchange for White House-favored regulations allowing for discrimination.
Such Bush administration regulations would permit faith-based charities that receive federal funds to discriminate against gays and lesbians in the workplace. According to the published reports, in return for this regulatory change, the Salvation Army is expected to spend up to $110,000 per month promoting the White House's faith-based initiative."

2. Major Salvation Army child abuse scandal in Australia-New Zealand two years ago:
Waikato Times - Sallies abuse claims mount
by Tracey Cooper - The Salvation Army has received 26 complaints about abuse of children in its care in New Zealand since an Australian documentary last week revealed similar abuse. Ten of those alleged cases happened at the former boys' home at Hodderville, 10km southwest of Putaruru at Waotu. The new complaints come on top of eight the organisation was dealing with before the Australian documentary aired. Salvation Army spokesman Alistair Herring said the complaints were "quite frankly appalling to us".
http://www.peterellis.org.nz/Institutions/SalvationArmy/2003/2003-0826_WaikatoTimes_SalliesAbuse.htm

Yes, there is bad stuff probably findable everywhere. Yes, casting first stones, and all that.
Yes, charitable giving is permanent triage. Clearly many good people support the Salvation Army. I acknowledge it is conceivable there are problems with the main charity our family supports, Seva Foundation, which (among many other things) does cataract operations to restore sight to blind children in Asia and Africa. (www.seva.org).

 

Two points:

1. Karl Rove is an evil man in my opinion and a disservice to the Bush Admin., as is V.P. Cheney


2. Not everyone who works for the Salvation Army is a Salvationist.