Introducing: The Color Line Forum

The Color Line's purpose is to serve as a fair and neutral place for the facilitation of meaningful dialogue on "race" relations and racism in America.

It is my belief that America's poor race relations will continue to be a problem if meaningful dialogue, and action on the part of individuals committed to change, is not undertaken.

I created The Color Line because the realities of "race" in America were brought out from under the carpet - under which it'd been swept - by Hurricane Katrina. Dialogue on "race" and racism in America has been undertaken in earnest (and vehemently resented by some) on some websites and forums - whose purposes were not meant for such discussions. Having witnessed the interest many others have for open dialogue and social change, I decided to create a place where this dialogue is welcome, and encouraged.

The forum is not fancy, and although I will be changing the color scheme to make it more pleasant to look at, it will continue to be "no frills" as bells and whistles are not necessary and will only detract from the forum's mission.

If you are considering joining the forum, please read the forum rules.

www.TheColorLine.us

 

For whatever reason, as of 9:18 PM (Pacific time) on 10/19/2005, I get a "cannot find server" error when I point my browser at the URL you provide. Are you certain it's correct?

 

DesElms,

I opened up IE and typed the URL in and it showed up for me. All I can say is try again...

My host could be doing backups or something, but I know the site's working because 2 other members from here have already joined tonight, and I've been in conversation - on the board - with one of them, already.

I don't know what else to say besides try again. Sorry...

If you still run into problems, let me know and I'll send a trouble ticket to my host.

www.thecolorline.us

 

don't cry for me, Valparaiso

Question for moderators:

Why is a website (however meritorious it may or may not be in its own sphere of discourse) with no relevance to the issues of distance education being advertised here? Why is a clearly political website, if advertised here at all, not advertised in the politics forum? What next? Dueling abortion websites? Love/hate religion websites? Elvis for President? Remember the junk pushed by a certain mighty poster who "struck out" after being in the bush leagues? Wrong then, wrong now: at least as far as DI's purposes are concerned. So is this.

Janko Preotul

 

I put the post in this forum because this is the OFF TOPIC forum. I suppose I could have put the post both here and in the politics forum, but then I'd be accused of spamming the boards. So, I went with OFF TOPIC, being that the announcement of my board is OFF TOPIC to the topic of distance education.

Somebody always wants to start some mess.

MODS: If you want to move this to the politics forum, go ahead. If you want to delete the thread, go ahead. I don't care.

I just want people here to know there's a place they can discuss these issues without stepping on other people's toes, or going off topic.

Whatever you want to do is okay. I didn't intend to come back after posting the announcement, anyway... but DesElms had some problems, sent out an SOS to me, and I was just trying to help.

Y'all don't want me here, and I don't want to be here. So, our "business" is finished. I did what I said I was going to do when I left, and just wanted to let the like-minded know.

 

Re: don't cry for me, Valparaiso

The reason I'm trying to see it is so I can determine if it's a commercial, for-profit sort of thing; or if it's just a labor of love for Rosalind. If it's the former, then it probably is inappropriate -- or, at the very least, less-than-desirable -- for a new thread to be started here just to promote it. That said, we have tolerated similar threads around here in the past. One guy, you may recall recently, was trying to get a tutoring service started and used DegreeInfo for considerable brainstorming and even recruitment... for his commercial benefit. Another member pseudo-promoted his open access textbook project/company. There is precedent here for such things. And if they're not particularly "commercial" in nature; and/or if they're more a labor of love or a non-profit sort of thing, one could argue that it's not so out-of-line.

It would be nice, however, if there were at least some kind of distance learning tie-in.... I do agree with that. But it is the off-topic area, after all. Weirder and more far-afield things have been brought-up here. There clearly is no distance education tie-in here... but, if one takes the history of things into consideration, it's at least understandable why Rosalind has come here and announced her new forum (which I'm hoping, when I finally get to see it, has no commercial value to her and is, as I suggested, just a labor of love for her).

Rosalind joined here a while back and posted sincerely and with integrity, but was kinda' shot down by the DI conservatives. Her response, obviously, has been to create a place where the kind of debate in which she was engaged here could be conducted a bit more rationally from her perspective... or so it was her hope, I suspect. As a member here, she obviously felt that it would not hurt anything to announce the creation of her forum here, where she was so strongly motivated to create it in the first place. I don't know if she was wrong to do it or not, given the history of this place and the occasional posts like hers that we have tolerated. Under these very particular circumstances, I suspect it's not... but, hey, I could be wrong.

I will say this, though... and this is just a personal opinion: Given the postings here that made her feel unwelcome, and which motivated her to go build a forum where the points she was trying to make would not be met with such criticism and resistence; and given the times and other circumstances, it's my opinion that her announcement here is not inappropriate. Under almost any other circumstances, I might not feel that way; but I think it's fair to give Rosalind the benefit of the doubt and not assume she's using us to further her own personal interests.

I don't know how other mods feel about it; and if any of them feel terribly strongly about it, then I'll certainly be happy to defer to them... but I'm not as troubled by this thread, given the precise circumstances, as I might otherwise have been. But that's just me.

I will add my opinion, having read Rosalind's post (immediately above) made while I was drafting this one, that it's unfortunate that Rosalind feels the way she does about DegreeInfo. Liberals, feminists and those with racial concerns are outnumbered and not well-tolerated here. I think that's sad... but, again, that's just my opinion.

One thing I would not like to see, however, is for all this to explode into another bit of unpleasantness. Rosalind definitely didn't come here for that... or to start anything like that. Her understandable bitterness is obvious, I realize... but I know she didn't start the thread to tick anyone off. As I recall, she did promise to go create a place where what she was trying to discuss here would be more respected; and it seems she's merely come back to tell us that she finally has. No harm, no foul there I would think.

I suggest we all just allow her thread-starting post to be what it was clearly intended to be: A no-ulterior-motives sort of notice to those who noticed her troubles here in the past that she has created a place where such discussions are better tolerated.

Or so it is my opinion... not so much as a moderator (although I guess it's that, too), but more as just a DI member. In fairness, I'm probably opining as a liberal... which, under the circumstances, may make me unfit to decide whether or not her thread started here is in any way inappropriate... hence my willingness to defer to other moderators who might think it is.

I would just leave it be; and discourage others from making too big a deal about it here. But that's just me.

 

Where did anyone say that, prior to your very public "resignation" from this site?

Then....why are you?

Rosalind, you're always welcome here, provided you check the chip on your shoulder at the door. One of the main reasons I resigned from the FTO (Field Training Officer) program at my PD was because the rookies no longer listen to us, and they now strut around the station like they have 30 years on the job.

IMO, that's exactly what happened to you. With barely a handful of posts, you started making demands of me and the administration of this website, which naturally didn't sit well with the veterans here.

 

Rosalind,

In my humble opinion Uncle Janko is wrong, Bruce is correct and Gregg has got it right.

I do think you were over-sensitive last time around. There is some good folks here, not sure if you intend to stick around and see that.

Back to the topic in point I think you had/have every right to post your thread in this section of the forum. Why should race be labelled a political issue, for me that would be the worst approach.

I will bookmark your site and may well contribute if I feel I can. I have a personal interest in the topic. I am Caucasian but have a Latin wife and also spent 2001-2004 working in Africa.

I really hope the reasoned side of your personality will overcome on your forum as there will no doubt be contentious issues raised and discussed.

Peace,

Dave C.

 

home training, or not

Hi all:

I see that Rosalind Gash is just as nasty toward those who disagree as she was in her earlier appearance. If this were a person with a real commitment to civil discourse, Dave, I would not have had any objection at all. Bruce is indeed correct. Gregg's desire to bring political balance to DI is understandable. But as one who has often been attacked by nasty right-wing types, I guess I would be more optimistic if the leftist Gregg chose--out of his own manifest goodwill and openness--as an exemplar of his balancing effort were herself a bit less unbalanced. In fact, the invariable civility of both Gregg and Bruce show how political posts, if done here at all, ought to be done. Dave's civility speaks for itself, and that quite well. The difference between the uncivil approach of Rosalind Gash and that of all the other posters on this thread is obvious, regrettable, and of no benefit to Degreeinfo.

Cordial best wishes to the reasoned participants in this thread, with whom I have no dispute at all. The diamond turns.

Janko Preotul

 

Let's be brutally honest...

Dialogue with any of the these people generally is only accepted if you agree with their viewpoint. If you have the temerity to disagree, your either a sexist, a racist or a right-winger. To a feminist, men are all sexists or potential rapists and our society is intent on keeping women down. Of course, the way higher admission rates for women to university in our country (even including the professions lately) is disregarded entirely as it does not fit their view of the world. On this very board, during a discussion on poverty, I pointed out some statistics that appeared to indicate a certain segment of the black community was doing better than their peers in the white community. I was immediately attacked as a right winger living in "fantasy land". Of course, when presented with some stats on poverty and race and challenged to put up or shut up the person disappeared. NO apology or responsible dialogue offered. Liberal's are fair and balanced? Take a look at any number of liberal blogs and you will be greeted with the widespread belief by them that conservatives aren't just mislead but are "stupid" (leftcoaster.com). Of course, they are also "sexist, bigotted moron's" as well. So, if any of you are drawn into a "fair and balanced" discourse be aware it will never really be fair or balanced if you dare to disagree with any of the true zealots.......

 

(that's DL for ya!)...

I don't participate in many online forums, but I'm learning how important that little postcount stat is...the number of posts a user has obviously garners great respect and admiration from other members, so....I'll be sure to hit every thread and topic I can (with arbitrary info) to increase my post count! Content, I will prove, is unimportant and raw numbers do tell the tale....

And RG, I'll check out your site...sounds interesting.

 

Re: home training, or not

Uncle,

One thing that troubled me in your initial response was that I felt you were a little stronger with Rosalind, given the history surrounding her past posts, than perhaps you would have been if the same post had originated from say a new poster.

I believe Rosalind has a good heart. I believe in previous posts she reacted too strongly to some comments which from what I can tell were not actually aimed at her personally, and I further believe her (originally applauded, you yourself made a post entitled ‘newbie makes a good splash’) tenacity became aggression when she wrong felt somebody (an admittedly blunt and uncompromising poster) had labelled her (as an African American) as ‘you people’, when in actual fact said poster was making the point that both black and white looters in New Orleans were wrong, and that we should not be discussing the issue any more than that. When said poster said ‘you people’ I firmly believe he was referring to the previous thread posters as a group. The dialogue can be viewed here.

21047

Rosalind’s then perhaps over dramatic exit didn’t help her case. But what do we know of her story, her life, to judge?
Surely the fact that she felt so moved to leave in that way was sad, that we, a group of educated, reasonable people could not offer her a place to enjoy reasoned dialogue.

Too much of this board tries to divide itself into left and right. I have no political affiliations and have never voted and frankly never will unless I can find a party to believe in. I believe Rosalind has passion and sincerely hope she finds a way to come back to DegreeInfo in a circumspect, open manner.

I hope, Uncle, that you will afford her that opportunity should she abandon pride and come with olive branch. Bruce has, in his typically balanced way, opened the door for her.

I think there is way forward for all here.

Peace,

Dave C.

 

Why of course, Dave. All I ask is civility. I don't give a rat's rear about agreement.
All the best, Janko

 

Why is that? I have a friend who I went through the academy with that is now a BART police LT. He said that he would never imagine pulling the kind of crap that a lot of the rookie officers are pulling these days. I don't think the quality has dropped, but I do think the amount of respect has decreased. My FTO was at least foot taller than I was, was one of the old school with 25 years on the department -- it was always "yes sir, no sir" with him. He was pretty black and white with his expectations - and surprisingly enough I scored very highly on my review (I was very surprised - I always thought he disliked me). -- I wish more cops were like him, I probably would have stayed in LE.

 

Do y'all sing?

I remember a show called Cop Rock. I had an uncle in NYPD for many years and he could sing, but wouldn't in his uniform, at least not like they did on the show....

 

Thanks

Thank you for the information, Rosalind. I also can't raise the server. I've tried on a Mac with Safari and Windows with IE.

Bill

 

Re: home training, or not

I try to be civil, but sometimes I mess up - like when I called the entire religious right a bunch of "psycho scum" and "nuts" in my post from earlier this week. Although they still make me mad, I appreciate people like Janko guiding me back to a better path - not to mention Jack Tracey for sternly warning me to obey the TOS!

As for Rosalind, I think it is admirable that she wants to open up a dialogue on this board, or any other board, in the "Off Topic" or "Political" sections to discuss race and other burning issues of the day. If they're somewhat related to DL, then all the better.

 

I didn't mean for all of this to take place.

I just wanted to announce my board for those who were interested. That's all. Nothing else.

I was not going to return here, but since it looks like this thread is taking on a life of its own, I don't want people to make any assumptions about me, etc. This is what I think, and my POV. Don't add anything to it. If something is unclear to you, ASK ME for clarification before launching an attack or putting words in my mouth.

I didn't start off at DI with a "chip" on my shoulder. Somebody else came to the boards and started the Katrina thread that started all of this. Then, somebody else, went on a mean-spirited tangent. When I pointedly responded to them, when none of you did, I then got jumped on.

So, I got the picture... DI members, overwhelmingly, only stick up for people they agree with. It doesn't matter if someone was unfairly attacked or targeted... if you don't agree with their position, then forget 'em. As far as the other side of the issue goes, as always, silence is agreement/acquiescence.

I can handle debate and differences in opinion, but when people get PERSONAL, then yes, I have a big problem. When people become disrespectful, when I wasn't disrespectful first, then yes, I have a big problem.

I don't think it was wrong for me to defend myself when I was disrespected FIRST and for no reason - especially since none of you came to my aid. Hence the "chip" on my shoulder. Well, remember this, I didn't get the chip until I was personally set upon.

This board is comprised, overwhelmingly, of older, white, staunchly conservative males. I am a young, black female. I have said nothing about my political affiliations or beliefs, but I truly think that because I identified myself, it was assumed that I would have a "certain" set of political beliefs that were contrary to most of yours (collectively). And, I truly think that that is why you all came after me the way you did, but said nothing to the person who started the mud-slinging.

I felt unfairly attacked and when I defended myself, I felt I was again attacked. You all jumped on me like I stole something. Why the heck would I hang around after that?

So, to whomever it was that said I should drop my pride and come bearing an olive branch... not gonna happen. I'm not apologizing and trying to get back in anybody's good graces. Especially since I know that none of the people who jumped on me are going to apologize to me.

So please, folks. This has been hashed to death. I have no reason to believe that many of you are ever going to see my POV. So, just let it go. All I wanted to do was make ONE piddly announcement and close this book. If I were looking to stir up anything, I would have gone on a personal rant, etc. but I didn't. I simply announced the site, gave the reasons (these debates - I am not involved - are happening on many other sites, too), and the link. It's not a money-maker; I'm just trying to provide a service and fill a need - and my hosting is cheap (which is probably why the site is down, lol). That's it. It's not that big a deal.

Now, can y'all stop talking about me and move on, too? Thank you.

 

I predict it. This one is gonna be another Nancy Grace thread.....

 

It's a--Romanian--thing; you wouldn't understand.

No it's not. We just got the rant--and the mean stereotyping by age and race--which were disclaimed in the very rant and stereotyping which the ranter and stereotyp- er? ist? said weren't there. A bas le surrealisme. I'm off this weird thread. Gonna go look for wampires.