New Orleans: Black people "loot." White people "find."

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by John Bear, Sep 1, 2005.

Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Thanks to Rick Walston for this: Two almost identical photos in Yahoo News, of people chest-deep in water with plastic bags full of stuff.

    The photo of African-American people is captioned,
    "A young man walks through chest deep flood water after looting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday"

    The photo of Caucasian people is captioned,
    "Two residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store."

    http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

    http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1
     
  2. Dave C.

    Dave C. New Member

    Thanks John.

    And therein lies one of the world's fundamentals problems.

    I offer no solution, I just shake my head one more time.

    Peace (a dream)

    Dave C.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Woman in photo 2 looks at least part African American. With due respect to all I think we should keep race out of this. This simply isn't the time nor place for that. That being said it is an odd way to word the caption.

    Dan
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Considering the media reported such stories and the majority of the media lean toward a more liberal slant, what are we to make of such reporting?
     
  5. Jeff Walker

    Jeff Walker New Member

    I'm not picking sides on this, but here's a defense of the caption from one side.

    http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=45&aid=88106

    I have been following the New Orleans TV feeds over the last couple of days and it is rather strange that everytime they show someone (invariably black, but that's about all that is left in the city) carrying anything in the flooded streets, the anchor (usually, but not always, white) invariably suggests that some "looting has been going on". I can understand that if someone is walking out of the Winn-Dixie or Wal-Mart carrying something, but these are often shots of someone walking down the street.
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    And New Orleans is (was) 2/3 black.

    But it just makes you sick, doesn't it?

    Racism is SO thoroughly a part of the American charactor (on the sides of both whites AND blacks) that it tends to show up even unconsciously.

    I see it in MYSELF. Everywhere, I see it.

    I likely even see it where it isn't, too.
     
  7. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Well said. Oh, my... well said! Music from words. True about us all.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2005
  8. RosalindGash

    RosalindGash New Member

    "Liberal" does not mean not racist. Just because someone may not recognize themselves as being racist, doesn't mean that they are not.

    The captions below the photos simply illustrate what many people have known for years: black people are PERCEIVED as more likely to be criminals than whites. Then, from there, in some cases, perception becomes reality - no matter how distorted.

    None of this is new. It's just more shocking that in the year 2005 this perception is still perpetuated.

     
  9. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Indeed.
     
  10. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    In one of the classic studies in psychology (Allport & Postman, 1945; modified by Boon & Davies 1987) people were shown (among other things) a picture of a white man and a black man squared off to fight. The white man held a straight razor (Allport) or a knife (Boon). The black man had no weapon. Testing recall in various ways (the 'telephone' game, or describing the picture, etc.) a majority (60%, I believe) remembered the knife (incorrectly) in the black man's hand; higher with the razor.

    Another of the times my wife sighs, "We've chosen the wrong planet."
     
  11. jek2839

    jek2839 New Member

    As a military Retiree who has served his country in foreign wars, I do believe that I have earned the right to say "let us focus on solving rising oil prices and burying the dead in New Orleans".

    I do not understand why or how a black or white looter would be willing to loot in broad daylight and be photographed or captured on film, he DESERVES A LENGTHY IMPRISONMENT.



    Americans helping Americans
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2005
  12. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Continued...

    The difference in captioning is likely due to the photos being from different sources. And that occurred to me as it is well known that Yahoo gets its photos from their indicated sources.

    You know what, folks? We just did a study of the type Dr. Bear cited.
     
  13. Orson

    Orson New Member

    GOOD POINT, Dr. Bear, but there's more to it....

    Captioning photos is of course largely a question of editorial decison-making, not the photographers.

    What's utterly distressing to respectable people, however, has been the rapid rise of looting and violence so quickly after a catastrophe like Katrina and NO's flooding. The ethic of Emersonian self-reliance or the quiet stoicism of a scandanavian are not sterotypically seen in the black American, such as we see among the poor survivors in NO. For many, these stories and images are shocking.

    Early in the rhetoric of post-catastrophe stories, a moral distinction was drawn between "looting" for food and water, the necessities of survival - versus looting as theft. Tuesday morning, a black clergyman and community leader from Denver, Reverend Ford, quite frankly decried the latter as planned, calculated thievery. How did he know? you don't need plasma TVs to survive without electricity. The first we as a society would allow, the latter we should condemn, just as the good Reverend did. He was offended and outraged by these people, calling it the planned opportunism of criminals.*

    Therefore, the photos John links to reveal either (or both) of two things: perhaps editors are, like many of us, conflicted about the looting and can't accurately observe or relate the above distinctions yet; or perhaps the photographer related the facts of what was looted and its circumstances of acquisition.

    Most likely the man or woman on the scene is the weakest link in the information chain - but in a story so chaotic, the editor defers to the presumed superior information content coming up from below. Given the impossibility.

    The larger issue is 'what makes these black people in NO more prone to experiencing criminality?' My friends - a black US historian at University of Florida and a poli sci prof at Alabama's traditionally black Stillman College - would cite the baleful, culturally corrupting influence of the Democratic welfare state since The Great Depression.... But that's another question for another time.

    I'll add another problematic story from CNN Thursday morning, 5AM eastern time. The first bus to arrive at the Houston Astrodome was described as a "renegade" bus! It wasn't part of the FEMA caravan of hundreds because it had just begun departing. Instead, it was just an ordinary yellow school bus driven by a 20 year old, filled with stressed out black people and many children.

    Even CNN had trouble navigating an accurate and racially unprejudiced picture of what had happened, just as John's photos and captions imply. Officials called it "renegade" - but after at first keeping these Katrina refugees out, they let them in. The CNN anchor struggled to tell this story fairly - trying not call this group "thieves" for two hours - uncomfortably leaning on "official" description of this unofficial and irregular arrival for aid as "a renegade bus."

    Reading between the lines, here's my surmize of what happened: these people had struggled out of town and comandeered (or in polite terms, "barrowed") a bus - that is, they stole it! - and having heard news of the Superdome relocation West, pretended to be from there. But the cover story was unmasked. Because they are inner city black, culturally and socially isolated from whites - they didn't know if they should trust these Houston (and apparently white) strangers. They simply assumed a socially acceptable mask, and presented themselves for help.

    John - there is a compelling subtext to the Katrina refugee story barely hinted at by your photos, and questionable captioning isn't the end of it. The distances between two American ethnic groups, often thought of as defined by race (and more misleadingly called racism), comes closer to it.

    Who among the victims are deserving and undeserving? When race enters the picture in the US, the answer is predictably vexed.

    -Orson
    __________________________________
    *Tonight, one Finus Shelnutt in downtown NO (interviewed by O'Reilly on FoxNews via phone), says that 90% of the shops in the French Quarter are ransacked, looted of jewelry. He's seen shopping baskets filled with shoes flowing out of stores - a car dealership has had all its cars stolen. "It's like a volcano," he says. He survived the mayhem because he lived next to a police station.
     
  14. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    As said by FWD, the woman in photo #2 (now removed from Yahoo) does not look Caucasian. Who saw Caucasian was seeing what they wanted to see.
     
  15. RosalindGash

    RosalindGash New Member

    You missed the point.

    The people in the pictures were not looters, as far as I know. Things were floating around and they took them because they were needed. There are stories surfacing of people "looting" abandoned drug stores for medicines and bandages, etc that are sorely needed by survivors (because emergency agencies can't do enough right now). There is a difference between that and stealing a computer.

    Also, nobody is saying that this incidence of racism (at worst) or insensitivity (at best) is more important than the immediate need of the thousands of survivors in N.O. and elsewhere in the Gulf Coast. That is not in dispute. However, just because this topic is not something that should be at the forefront, right this minute, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be given any examination at all.

    THAT was the point.

     
  16. RosalindGash

    RosalindGash New Member

    WTH?! You couldn't come up with a valid arguement so you took a magnifying glass and looked at the Yahoo photo? Geez!

    The ethnicity/race of the woman was not the point. Unless you're looking at a different picture, there was a clearly identifiable WHITE MAN in the pic with the woman. Even if it was a pic of the man alone, with the same captions, it would still be WRONG and could be construed as being racist.

    And you have illustrated another problem with race and racism in America. Just how SURE are you that the woman isn't white? Are you from the South? Do you have any familiarity at all - even a little bit - with the racial history of N.O.? Ethnicity/race isn't just Caucasian and Black. Ever heard of the Cajuns or the "gens de coleur"? What about plain old miscegenation? It affected white families, too, ya know.

    The bottom line is that the race of the woman in the pic is INDETERMINABLE. The race of the man is not, so we're still back at square one. Stop trying to deny that there is STILL a race problem in this country. Even if you don't ever personally experience it or witness it, the mere fact that thousands - if not millions of people of color in the U.S. still experience it, myself included, and are telling you that it is still happening should be enough empirical evidence for you to hypothesize that "hmm... racism in America still exists for a significant portion of the population". Note, that's not saying that ALL minorities experience racism, but at the same time it's not denying its existence.

    I'm not on here trying to be the "minority spokesperson", and I won't be drawn into a debate. The truth is the truth is the truth. It is what it is, and just because someone doesn't want to acknowledge it does not mean that it is going to cease being what it is: truth.

    Let's not get carried away and miss the forest for the trees.

     
  17. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Lets not...

    You're right, Let's not get carried away.

    a. Yahoo does not have a news service they reprint news from the other news sources and the wires. The pictures could easily have come from different editors. Editors whose race is indeterminate to us. For all you know he or she could be black or white. It could have been a black reporter or editor printing the looter story. You people are accusing others of jumping to conclusions while doing it yourself.

    b. Looting even out of necessity is still looting. So calling it looting is in fact correct. Do I begrudge someone looting food that they need when the food will inevitably be spoiled anyway? Heck no, it is what they need to do to survive so do it. Just don't do it in a way harmful to others (ie, hoarding) and don't loot tv's, x-box's etc. Being civilized in times of hardship is what is supposed to seperate us from the animals.

    c. New Orleans has descended into anarchy and there is simply no excuse for rapes, murders, etc. PERIOD!!!! To excuse it as racism or necessity is to excuse the inexcusable. Taking food and water when hungry or thirsty is necessity. Raping and robbing is barbarity!!!!! The people trying to help them are being attacked for god's sake!! The people in Indonesia acted better than this!! The mayor of New Orleans is blaming everybody else when his OWN police have been filmed looting and it wasn't food they were looting. The New Orleans police department has been a cesspool of corruption, drugdealing and murders for decades and it appears things haven't gotten much better.

    You people excuse this all you want but put away your bleeding hearts. The behavior being exhibited in New Orleans by a very large group of people is intolerable!! The US military has traveled all over the world to help people in just as dire straits as the people as New Orleans and they have rarely been faced with what is going on in in America's own third world city. The people of New Orleans were first harmed by the hurricane but now it is their fellow citizen doing it...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2005
  18. RosalindGash

    RosalindGash New Member

    Re: Lets not...

    1. It doesn't matter if the editor is black or white. The character of the captions were wrong, period.

    2. It is a well known fact among blacks that black on black racism exists. I didn't specify any type of racism, nor did I conclusively say that the captions were racist. I said they:

    -Could be construed as being racist

    -At worst were racist

    -At best were insensitive

    Note that none of that was a conclusive judgement.

    3. On looting, we agree. Why'd you need to press the point? I'm sure what I wrote was not hard to understand.

    4. Why are you blasting on me about something I never even mentioned?

    NEVER did I say that there was an excuse for New Orleans to descend into anarchy. Do NOT start putting words in my mouth and/or attributing things to me that I did not say and/or do. I take that as a personal attack, because you are now making up things.

    Your rage is misplaced and making you look like a blithering idiot who has indeed gotten carried away. Control yourself and have some class, man.

    5. Who is "You people"? And what was it that I actually wrote that earned me the "honor" of being called one? Further, how do you know that I would qualify to be a "you people" in the first place? Do tell. I'm sure everyone else on the board would like to know, too.

    Whatever problems you have with "you people" have nothing to do with me. You had some issues with "you people" before I ever came to this board. I would appreciate it if you kept your issues separate from me. If you can't handle yourself with some class, you need to exit stage left.


     
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    newbie makes a (good) splash

    Hi Roz. Welcome aboard. Lookit, everybody: a newbie who thinks in paragraphs!
    This is so cool! Janko Preotul
     
  20. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Re: newbie makes a (good) splash

    Yes! We like her already.

    Pace yourself, Rosalind... the Right is well-represented around here.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page