AH HA!! J.D. vs. Ph.D.? A BLOW for TRUTH!

This link, if it works, is to the FAQ section of Yale University's Post Doc policy website.:

http://www.yale.edu/postdocs/medicine/fa_guides.html#FAQ


Scroll on down, folks, the the DEFINITION of a postdoc!

grin. grin! GRIN!

 

So we should start calling you Dr. Nos?



marilynd

 

Absolutely NOT! Yale is out of its MIND.

Buuuuut, I thought it was just too good not to post!

You can call little fauss "doctor" if you like.

 

I thought that the ABA had been -- and, if so, I agree with you that it would be "wrongly" -- trying to get everyone to think of the J.D. as a true doctoral degree (as in the same league as a PhD, among others) for a long time. If so, then nothing new here, no?

 

Ah, but this here is YALE UNIVERSITY! The ABA is a mere breath of hot air in the academy compared with YALE UNIVERSITY. No power on earth or in the heavens above could shift YALE UNIVERSITY from its chosen course, from the pursuit of TRUTH!

This is our ANNOINTING! This is the very SEAL of UNIVERSAL APPROVAL!

If YALE says I'm a doctor, then by God I'm a DOCTOR!

umm...

you don't think they meant it to apply only to YALE J.D.s, do you??

 

Sometimes your posts make me laugh out loud.

Very good.

 

From Yale's Website

What is the difference between a postdoctoral appointee and a postgraduate appointee?

All postdoctoral fellows/associates have doctoral degrees (Ph.D., M.D., J.D., or D.V.M.). Postgraduate fellows/associates have a Bachelor’s and/or Master’s degree. Policies defining postgraduate appointments and who is eligible for such a title are in the process of being drafted.

Good for Yale. This just reflects what I have seen in 18 years working in higher ed...namely that first professional doctorates (e.g J.D., M.D. & D.V.M.) are treated just like research doctorates (e.g. Ph.D.). Many of my faculty colleagues have the J.D. as their highest degree and are always paid at the doctoral level.

The problem with the ABA is that they misrepresented the amount of work required to obtain a Ph.D. in order to establish the idea that the professional J.D. is an equal doctorate to the research doctorates, such as the Ph.D. The J.D. is not a research doctorate, it is a first professional doctorate (but it is a doctorate, just the same).

My 1.5 cents...

 

Yass, yass, Old Yale got it right this time...

(leans back, sips tulip glass of old Madeira)

A little further research shows that Yale is not an anomaly, exactly as you have always said.

(forward in his chair with a resounding THUMP!)

I really COULDN'T resist posting this, though!

 

Re: From Yale's Website

So, then... California's willingness to allow anyone who completes certain CLEP exams, but who may have no degree at all, into a J.D. program must be fairly repugnant to you, no? I mean... if it is, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. It even gives me pause, and I'm a hard-core supporter of California's general "pretty much anyone who's provably ethical can be a lawyer if they really want to" attitude. I'm just askin'.

 

I've been called "doctor" before. Whenever I've applied for a faculty position, they always refer to me as "Doctor" Fauss (not my real name) whenever they send me the letter back saying:

"Thank you for your interest in the position of professor of Business/Business Law at Too-Good for the Likes of You University. While your credentials were excellent, we have decided to offer the position to another...(blah blah blah)".

Perhaps they think the "Doctor" nomenclature lessens the sting. Doesn't do a thing for me. Mocks me, if anything.

I have no problem with someone calling me "Doctor", so long as they also acknowledge that in my profession, the "Master" is the higher designation. Just ask Nosborne.

 

Well, if you don't want to be called "Dr. Nos" . . .

. . . would you prefer "Goldfinger?"



marilynd

 

Penn State

Penn State also refers to the JD as an "equivalent doctorate" to the PhD.

Penn State's definition is "adapted" from the "Association of the American Universities’ Committee on Postdoctoral Education Report and Recommendations", March 31, 1998. You can see the original AAU report here. However, the AAU report did not list the JD in this manner; apparently Penn State added it to their definition.

 

Re: Re: From Yale's Website

I was faculty at three higher ed institutions in California and never witnessed an instance where anyone was ever admitted into a grad program without an undergraduate degree...

...or are you talking about some unaccredited California-approved school whose graduates wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hades to be accepted into a Yale postdoc?

Frankly, after the shenanigans that I have seen at the K-12 level by the California Dept. of Education, I wouldn't put it past my former resident state to pull something unseemly.

Gregg, please educate me.

 

JD without Bachelor's

Whittier Law School, which is a perfectly legitimate ABA-accredited law school in California, will admit JD candidates that lack bachelor's degrees. Not commonly, but it is possible. Details here (look for the heading: "Applicants Who Do Not Have Bachelor's Degrees")

 

Same

All ABA, J.D., hires were paid at PhD. levels when working for me. A J.D. or M.D. were paid by class hours. Of course, I selected the most qualified and personal favorites.

A good attorney is as proficient, in his field, as any physician. Both deal with mechanics. One works with words and logic, the other physiology. And as I recall ( back in the day) neither required writing skills or publication, unless working as full-time faculty.

If an individual is concerned about a title, and have fulfilled the requirements, acknowledge their accomplishments. They are all mechanics, to me. And I hold my Porsche mechanic in very high regard. I cannot even find my engine.

All Ca. attorneys qualify. One of the hardest Bar exams in the country. A DPA or Psy.D. is no different. All require more than most are willing to give.

If someone is so insecure, unless within a school setting, to demand a "Doctor" title, give it. Who does it hurt?

We pay the experts. They work for us. Let's make them comfortable. They will work harder and feel more comfortable, giving due diligence to our complaints.

I respect all the folks posting. I've shown my ass, but apologized. I think some, perhaps moi, should be ignored. You guys have the smarts, why argue with troglodytes? You are above the minutia.

 

Re: Same

I suggest that you look in the trunk rather than under the hood.

 

Same

Touche. I wish I knew computer. I think, if I look under the hood, I'd be a bigger pain than I am. Mid-engine smart guy. Let the professionals do their thing.

 

Same

Bill,
If you charge less than $200 hr., I'll let you fix any computer problems with my toy. Oil change- $160. And the guys have some kind of certification, from somewhere, mit Porsche zubehor & service.

 

Same

has fulfilled. Third paragraph.

 

Re: JD without Bachelor's

Thank you...that's fascinating. So those who would be upset at California should be equally (if not more) upset with the ABA. So, it appears that Chiropractic is not the only doctorate that can be pursed without an undergraduate degree.

Given the APA's efforts to rhetorically forge an equivalency between the equivalency of the J.D. & Ph.D. based upon the alleged requirements and workload for the two degrees, this is highly ironic. It certainly does nothing to strengthen the APA's position.